Well, we've had threads for concertos, symphonies and solo piano music. Let's turn our attention to choral work. I'm primarily thinking of masses and the like (not lieder, though there is probably another thread in that, though not one I'm knowledgeable to start).

Orff's Carmnia Burana is a lot of fun (and Ormandy/Philadelphia orchestra is a great recording indeed).

It's hard to go wrong with the Verdi Requiem (I have Abbado and the BPO).

No choral thread would be complete without mention of Bach. The outstanding piece being the B minor mass (but the matthew passion is also very fine). I have John Elliot Gardiner's recordings of both.

Handel, for my money, can sound a little samey. Still, the messiah is a very good starting point and there are numerous good readings. Davis with the LSO is excellent though. His coronation anthems are also very fine (although, snobbish hat on, Zadock the priest has become rather overly popularised of late).

I don't know Beethoven's choral works nearly as well as I ought (so perhaps others can recommend here). However, I was recently at a wonderful Edinburgh Festival concert containing Christ on the Mount of Olives (his only oratorio) and his mass in c (I think). Both of which were very good, so I'm keen to learn more.

The Mozart requiem is probably a must too (even though there is debate as to how much of the orchestration -and more?- is not down to mozart himself). I have the excellent Mackerras/SCO version (sorry, wouldn't be one of my classical threads without a mention of Sir Charles ), this features a new version of the score which tries to get back to what Mozart actually intended.

Janacek's Glagolitic mass should (I think) be in everyone's collection. As with all Janacek, anything with Mackerras is more than a safe bet. Rattle's version and Kempe's are also good.

One last work. Britten's War Requiem. When it was released back in the sixties it sold several hundred copies (something unequalled before or since for modern classical music). It's pacifist message, mixing the mass with Owen's war poetry struck a chord with the times. There are two key recordings: Britten's own and Guilini at the Proms on BBC legends.


Well, those are my key choral works. Where would you all start?


regards,

Tam

Tam,

What do you think of Haydn's masses?

My favourites are the Nelson, Maria Theresa and the Paukenmesse.

Beethoven's Mass in C is another favourite as is Mendelssohn's Elijah.

I also have a soft spot for Vivaldi's Gloria and Verdi's Requiem.

I have recently started to build a classical vinyl collection investing in the above plus a couple of different recordings of the Messiah.

I have sung all the pieces many years ago as a member of the bass section in various choirs. Listening to the recordings now it is noticeable how different the pieces sound from outside the choir, if you know what I mean. There are some wonderful bass lines in each of the pieces which are masked by the overall choir. I guess I will just have to get used to different perspective.

Brad

Brad,

Good point. Completely forgot Haydn (what a shocking oversight). Most of my Haydn comes from Bernstein (there is an excellent DG box containing a few london symphonies, some masses and the Creation - the latter is outstanding). As I said on the symphonies thread, I think that Bernstein and Haydn is a winning combination since he lends it such a joyfulness.

The Haydn masses I've heard are all very good, but I don't know them well enough to recommend.

I don't know Vivaldi's Gloria at all. Any particular recording you'd recommend?



regards,

Tam

Dear Choral Friends,

Haydn and Handel wrote the greatest churus yet composed, but then what do I know?

Seriously though everything above will provide pleasure to most (though I personally will never find pleasure in the Janacek or the Britten mentioned), but the idea that Handel sounds a bit samey is nonesense! Haydn, almost as often, achieves the same sort of intensity. Both are more direct in their expressive means than old Bach, even though both his Passion settings (S Matthew an S John) are far more direct than you might expect.

The S John is completely different to the S Matthew. It is shorter, and, though serious, a rather optimistic view, whereas one could hardly say that of the S Matthew. I love both, but tend to think the S John is the starting point. Gardiner's recording has many qualities, and is about as fine as any I have heard, but I am not sure an ideal recording yet exists. It is a wonderful piece to go and hear at Easter...

For a start find a recording of Haydn's Te Deum, which is pure exhaulted joy, and then the Magnificat of old Bach, which has similar qualities. Try to find the recording done by Erato with JL Corboz conducting (the Bach) which has got everything, in my view. For the Haydn I have an RCA recording done by the Vienna Boys Choir (and an ad hoc band which is simply superb in the Viennese way) which is magical. The S Johns, Cambridge, series under Guest on Decca also includes a very fine performance. For the Masses this series is not merely reliable, but very fine from every view point in classic Decca stereo.

I am not going to point up every possibility, especially in aras which I care less well for, but only make this observation. There are many choral societies in this country. If you have a sense of pitch and a voice join one for a season. If you hate it give up, and if you love it you will learn how differently one listens to music once one has performed it live in front of an audience. It will mean far more afterwards,let me assure you! Otherwise, try attending some of the concerts, which will let you know certainly more surely than anything here, what repertoire you enjoy the most...

[I adore the choral repertoie, though my contribution was always playing the string bass. Choral conductors usually leave the band to just get on with it and fit in! Very much a pressurised occupation considering that you only ever got ONE rehearsal and would be sight reading, fitting in. and taking the odd cue, in large parts, totally unrehearsed! I rather enjoyed the edge of the seat!].

Fredrik

Tam,

Sorry but I don't have a recommendation for the Gloria on vinyl - I do have a CD with the choir of Christ Church Cathedral Oxford and the Academy of Ancient Music conducted by Simon Preston, but I don't like the arrangement amd wouldn't be happy recommending it. I am looking out for a good recording myself, so I hope someone else has a recommendation. Having said that, I think you would like the Gloria.

I meant to mention the Creation, and another one for you to consider is Charpontier's Te Deum. I am looking for a copy on vinyl - I find the copy on CD I have by Les Arts Florissants totally distracting as the choir is French and the latin pronuciation very different to what I am used to. For example, Te deum laudamus comes over as "Ti deeum lardamousse". The rendition is also a tad staccato - I prefer a more leisurely approach.

Brad

quote:

if you love it you will learn how differently one listens to music once has performed it live in front of an audience. It will mean far more afterwards,let me assure you!

Fredrik,

I will treasure forever the memory of performing Handel's Coronation Anthlems in the Albert Hall in Nottingham. The rising arpeggios at the start of Zadock slowly built up and when we, the choir, hit the first note of !Za.." the organist came in too and augmented the chord with notes from the very subterreanes depths. That one hugh chord was so sublimely fantastic, I am convinced we could have ended the concert there and then and the audience would still have been delighted - I know I was thrilled with the moment. It was pure magic, and although it happened about 30 years ago, the memory remains vivid.

Brad

quote:

Originally posted by Yeldarb:

... the memory remains vivid.

Brad

Dear Brad,

Thanks for that. You will never forget THAT moment. I played Zadok in Hereford Cathedral once and I promise you that Roy Massey and the Father Willis organ rattled my stomach at that very moment! Never to be forgotten...

Fredrik

Dear Friends,

The Bach Magnficat under Corboz is coupled with Vivaldi's Gloria and is an abso;utely prime starting point... on Erato

Fredrik

I first me Zadock two years ago in the finale of the Edinburgh Festival fireworks concert (it had been preceded that year by the firework music). This year they did beethoven seven, which must have been good (though I didn't see it).


regards,

Tam

Hi Tam,

You may want to check out Kodaly's Missa Brevis that is coupled with Janacek's Massin E Flat and The Lords Prayer on EMI Classics. A magnificent disc!!

Regards
David

David,

Thanks for the recommendation, I shall look out for it.


regards,

Tam

You might like to try Arvo Part's Passio. I think it's pretty astonishing and can't get enough of it.

MC

In my view it looks rather strange, that no one - in a thread about great choral works - has mentioned a work from the time before the year 1700.

To mention a few magnificent examples:

Guillaume de Machault : Messe de Notre Dame. My preferred version is the Arte Nova CD with Rene Clemencic, but the Gilles Binchois Ensemble version on Harmonic Records is more "soft" and probably preferable to some (featuring Andreas Scholl).

Johannes Ockeghem : Requiem. I find the ASV recording with Edward Wickham preferable to the Naxos with Bo Holten. Some will want to have both versions.

Claudio Monteverdi : Vesperae della Beatae Mariae Virginis . Exists in many fine versions. The exquisite beauty of the Parrott version (Virgin Classics) always seduces me.

This is just a small extract of the many great choral works from the medieval age and the renaissance.

quote:

Originally posted by pe-zulu:
In my view it looks rather strange, that no one - in a thread about great choral works - has mentioned a work from the time before the year 1700.

We're all late baroque/classical/romantic heathens

Dear Tam,

Not quite though I did wonder who hear might enjoy much before Bach!

Fredrik

Purcell for example! Let alone Monteverdi, but I am no expert on the early Baroque or anything else come to that!

Actually, I do love a bit of Purcell, though I don't know his stuff as well as I ought (an area of my cd collection to develop perhaps). One of my favourite discs is the music for Queen Mary's funeral (I have Gardiner with the Monteverdi choir and orchestra). The trumpets on the march are just fantastic. I have another more mixed disc, I forget whose, but it's recorded in westminster abbey and the traffic noises are too audible.



regards,

Tam

quote:

Originally posted by Fredrik H:
Let alone Monteverdi, but I am no expert on the early Baroque or anything else come to that!

Fredrik, I must try to change that situation.
Regards,

quote:

Originally posted by Tam:
We're all late baroque/classical/romantic heathens

But incurably so?