Steve S1 was good enough to entertain myself and Tony M at his place on Monday.

Some of you will be aware that Steve has been impressed enough with the sound quality using Apple Lossless encoding from a MacBook via 'Airport Express' and a Lavry DAC to have parted with his CDS3.

I took my CDX2 along to do some comparitive listening. On a blind dem, I preferred the sound of the £1,500 Mac/Lavry combo. Very impressive indeed.

This was all via Steve's integrated Berning valve amp and Art Emotion Sigs. A Naim amp might have told a different story, but one can't argue with what was a level playing field.

It seems that if a CD is losslessly ripped, and replayed via a good quality DAC, the results can be very good indeed.

Comparison of this combo with an HDX would be really interesting.

Much scratching of the head here ..........

Tony will hopefully post his thoughts here too.

John.

John,
Thanks for that.
Steve mailed me after you both left and said there was a lot of head movement.
Was it that good?
If Tony can get us all in next week we will be up On the day after Tuesday?
Stuart

I've been listening to the hidef (88k24bit) material that my good friend tony faulkner provided to naim, and which I brought along to the hintlesham hall day

from a macbook with apogee duet convertors (300 quid, the quality is ummm very very good indeed. Hard to draw comparisons between hintlesham system and mine (room, 500s, passive DBL versus room, olive, active DBL) but a comparison twixt hdx+555 and macbook/apogee would be a close run thing on hidef material, i think. Proof is in the pudding, of course, but the price differential is worrying.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Adam Meredith,

jon,
Can you make it next week?

what? where? when?

jon,
Tony's Wednesday?
If he can get us all in?

Naimees find it very hard to accept that the likes of Apple, SlimDevices, Sonus, Lavry and Benchmark can produce sounds to match Naim CD players.

quote:

Naimees find it very hard to accept that the likes of Apple, SlimDevices, Sonus, Lavry and Benchmark can produce sounds to match Naim CD players.

I don’t think this reluctance is just a Naimie thing. Going back ten or more years, my place was awash with DACs and transports. Even “DAC people” like Audio Synthesis argued that the overall sound of a player was 70% the transport and 30% the DAC.

I remember quite vividly when the very earliest (and maybe the best) Densen B400 CD player came out. I had a pre-production sample which was running rings around two box systems at seven times the price. The elegance of a well engineered single box solution felt like the future from then on. So far, I personally have not actually heard anything to challenge this view. But then I have not been looking all that hard either.

Playing a Macbook into a Supernait does not give the results that JN is reporting. Not by a long way. I’m no engineer, so I’ll try not to dig myself into a hole on this, but areas such as data clocking (maybe the Lavry is particularly good at handling this) can make big differences to the results.

At our Summer Sounds ‘do’ last week Jon Honeyball made a very convincing case for DACs ‘n Macs as an audio solution. Inconvenient (for me) but convincing! JN is not deaf. I SAID . . . so his judgement is adding weight to the argument.

Interesting times. But I think we are capable of being open-minded too.

Alastair

im not going o replace my cds1 with a mac any time soon.

but my interest is at the highdef area, which is a completely new one where we play from hard disc. in this space its a whole new set of learning.

A Mac Pro playing such material into a Motu 828 Mk 3 into Fostex 0.5's sounds ridiculously fine too. Sure, the naim rig trounces it, but as the Timster and i have commented often recently, so it should for the price diff!

I was the one who bought Steve S1's CDS3 from him and I can't sing enough praise of the player!

Judging by the posts Ive just read, especially the first (J.N.) this lossless audio must really be something. You said it was better than the CDX2 and my inference from your post (Steve S1 changing his CDS3 for the MAC) it also beats the CDS3!!

I think that is amazing, but I personally will continue climbing the Naim ladder as the thing I noticed the most from my recent upgrades is that matching components brings out so much audio synergy. The imbalance I previously experienced from jumping in with both feet and getting the NAP300 is now being restored.

This leads me on to this present topic thread: surely if electronics from different manufacturers are being used together, it is far more difficult to 'balance' the sound??

I have to repeat myself, it is the balancing of sound that I feel brings the most enjoyment from the music.

Kind regards,

Jon

I can't really add much more to what John's already posted. A most convincing demonstration, and the advantage of the Mac/DAC over the CDX2 was quite clear cut.

Like Alastair, I can also remember playing around with different DACs. Over the years I've lost track of DAC technology, but back then the kit on offer used to differ wildly in sound quality. Jon will correct me on this if necessary but I get the feeling that differences in good quality DACs aren't so pronounced these days.

It'd be interesting to hear Steve's setup in an all-Naim system. (Wonder how it would sound against my 555?)

Next Wednesday should be OK Stuart, I'll give you a ring later.

quote:

Originally posted by jon honeyball:


from a macbook with apogee duet convertors

I looked at that unit - is it a DAC? Seems more like something to use as an interface for mics and guitars. Can you please elaborate on this - and did you compare it to the Lavry?

Thanks
Gregg

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Adam Meredith,

its a full stereo A to D and D to A convertor, 96k24bit. so your mac is a full stereo hidef recorder and playback box.

sorry, not heard of the lavry -- am comparing to the Motu Ultralite and the Focusrite devices later this week.

How do the two compare in a non blind test, after some hours of listening?

jon,
If Steve can make it we will be up at Tony's next Wednesday.
Stuart

I'd love to hear a demo of

CDX2
HDX
Linn DS - say Majik or Akurate
Squeezebox (hardwired ethernet with a decent DAC)

I think the results could be very interesting...

James

Steve sold his cds3 because the DAC combo he has now,is to his ears as good if not better.
Makes you think

It does make you think Munch.

I can see myself going this route very soon.


P

Thanks John and Tony.

It was great fun as usual with introduction to some superb music and my Amazon account will take the usual hit after this. It always happens when we meet up.

I can add some observations.

I would first say that I started playing with DACs and computer music a year or two back, mainly as a convenient alternative for background music etc. Partly out of nerdy interest with my iPod/car stuff etc. Definitely not with a view to what we refer to as "serious listening" so much of what I've stumbled into lately is as a result of it.

On Monday, John brought his CDX2 with him as he too has been interested in the potential to stream audio as another source to his own set-up.

In the morning we left it plugged in to warm up.

Meanwhile we got through a lot of music with John and Tony getting familiar with my system and the surroundings. They both brought music with them and I was very taken with John's SHM CDs of the Steely Dan albums and Tony's Verve Ella Fitzgerald discs - so much so, that they are on their way.

Anyway, I ripped a couple of tracks from John's "Aja" and synchronised the playback with the CDX2 (into which I put the SHM CD).

The A-B demo lasted barely half of "Black Cow". The Mac/Lavry was preferred without hesitation. Even sitting behind them, operating the switch, the difference was clear to me too. John and Tony were listening blind.

To be fair, John and Tony were already very impressed with the sound of the Mac/Lavry during the morning, after all the system may not be their own but we all know the music very well (Chris Jones, Adele, Steely Dan, Cream, Nils Lofgren, to name a few).

To compare my own previous experience. The difference with the CDS3 was much closer (as you would hope) but from my personal perspective, I don't see the onus being on a £600 DAC to prove it's better. Rather I was looking for the CDS3 to be much better and, in my case, it simply isn't.

This was no A-B either. I did initial A-Bs, was astonished how good the Mac/DAC was then took the CDP out of my system for three weeks. I didn't miss it. When I then put it back and ran it back in - my findings were unchanged. It's a great CD player and remains so.

So there we are. Expect more of this as people get to grips with computer audio and the various settings. I must say the Mac makes a big difference over the PCs I have tried, and I'm sure that has much to do with getting Windoze audio rubbish out of the road. I just don't have the techy knowledge or inclination to fiddle with PC ASIO drivers etc. The MacBook comes with much simpler audio settings, 2ch 24bit/96hz output and obviously iTunes is designed for it.

I should also mention that Linn's 24bit Studio Masters sound fantastic. But I need to understand whether they can be even better by somehow checking whether the 96hz 24bit is streaming properly. All I can say is, if they can be better than they sound now - wow!

Best regards,

Steve

I am just hanging on for the Naim DAC or DAC'S

I've just been told that the main player we listened to at Hintlesham is not the final sound quality, and improvements have been made since.

(the second player in the first room was clearly a still earlier prototype because it wouldnt load my usb device on the front panel)

quote:

I am just hanging on for the Naim DAC or DAC'S

Or just take the HDX - remove CD tray and internal hard drives. Leave that nice display and the ability to add an external supply. Take 2.5k off the price. Perfect

James

quote:

Originally posted by jon honeyball:
I've been listening to the hidef (88k24bit) material that my good friend tony faulkner provided to naim, and which I brought along to the hintlesham hall day

........

Just did some internet sleuthing on the Apogee - seems like quite a powerhouse for $500! Almost a no brainer - and it allows one to use iTunes for an interface.

Gregg


PS - beware of the wrath of Adam this thread will likely be banished to that other "neglected" room before long

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Adam Meredith,

Yes, apogee and apple have a codevelopment agreement -- which is why duet is supported so well (and directly inside Logic for example).

The Duet is now on sale in some applestores, I believe.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Adam Meredith,

quote:

Originally posted by jon honeyball:
I've just been told that the main player we listened to at Hintlesham is not the final sound quality, and improvements have been made since.

(the second player in the first room was clearly a still earlier prototype because it wouldnt load my usb device on the front panel)

So is the one I'm going to win in the Prize Draw going to be the 'final sound' version, or one of these working prototypes?

quote:

The Duet is now on sale in some applestores, I believe.

Yes it is - neat bit of kit. I've got a Power book on music server duties so this could be an interesting bit of kit.

James

quote:

So is the one I'm going to win in the Prize Draw going to be the 'final sound' version, or one of these working prototypes?

Just getting your MacBook ready as we speak James. Only a few more loading options to try out.

Alastair