I'd like to hear your suggestions of a subwoofer for the LFE channel - considering that the other home theater speakers will be DBLs on the front left/right and SBLs for the center and rear channels. (I don't have this set up yet and it will be a month or two before I can get all the pieces in place.) I do not have any practical opportunity to listen for myself so I thought I'd ask first and then see how my Naim dealer can, or can't, help.
Has anyone tried the nSub with DBLs? Any comments on the quality of the results - does it really do the job? Since DBLs will take care of a full frequency range - I only perceive the subwoofer's role as 1) helping to overcome the decreasing sensitivity of human hearing at low frequencies, and 2) providing the visceral/earthshaking impact of the LFE channel that is otherwise reduced in level when mixed into the front channels (please correct me if I misunderstand this last point - that LFE is reduced in level when mixed to the front channels).
I think of the nSub's 250mm/10" driver - even with an extended excursion - as hampered (compared to 12" and 15" subs like those made by ATC) when trying to deliver the only frequencies where DBLs could use reinforcement in a home theater. I am not putting a financial boundary on this issue at the moment. I'm sure I won't be spending the $10k US for an ATC 15" subwoofer but the key question is what will do the job and then at what price. If I can't stand the price then I just won't do it and the DBLs will have to do the best they can.
Thanks for your input.
Mark

The Naim n/sub will be your best choice.

Hi Mark.

Much depends on the size of the room you're wanting to "Bass-Load".If it's a large room you'd be better off using two subs.

I confess I've never tried N-subs in my room, but after auditioning various other makes of sub I currently use two Velodyne DD15s. I find the on-board EQ and range of adjustments invaluable in fine-tuning the bass response.

They give an unbelievable wallop to film soundtracks!

If cost were no object I would get 2 or 4 of these subwoofers:

Simply because the 15-inch woofer does not point to the wall but towards the listener. Which I think will make the neighbours much happier.

I have a white paper at home of Harman Kardon of a research in which they tested via computer simulation the number of subs in a room. I think their conclusion was that multiple smaller subs pointed towards the listener had better results than one sub wit a large woofer. I'll put it on my usb-stick and post it tomorrow.

Regards
Bas Wolke

The processor should be able to be configured to assume the front speakers are 'large' and therefore recieve that bass information.

I would wonder what result you would get with front speakers likely having bigger cone than a sub and a sub haha.

im with tony , another vote for velodyne.
i use the dd18 and as tony says they are very versatile ans give some serious grunt to movie soundtracks

neil

Here is the article Subwoofers: Optimum Number and Locations

Mark, had you tried the maple n-SUB we recently sent to your dealer?

quote:

Originally posted by garyi:
The processor should be able to be configured to assume the front speakers are 'large' and therefore recieve that bass information.

With most processors you can stipulate numbers and sizes of speakers, but if you set the front speakers to "Large" & omit the sub. you would then mix the discrete LF channel into them. Not the same thing at all!

you can stipulate the roll-off point and the transition slope between the main and the sub., which unlike the main stereo speakers is designed purely to produce low frequencies.

The Velodyne DD subs each pack 1.25Kw of onboard digital amplification. Not an output you can easily get from yer normal stereo pair!

Dave – I have not tried the n-Sub recently; my AV2 has been on loan to my brother for several months - and will be until I get my electronics reconditioned and surround speakers set up over the next month or two. I will consider trying the n-Sub if Bob has it when I can configure for it. Have you put a sub in your system? I’d be curious to know what sub you would choose. Thanks.

Tony & Neil – thanks for the Velodyne recommendation. I like what V has provided to support the sub setup. I am familiar with the concept of using multiple subs, with placements around the room, to reinforce the low frequencies – particularly in large rooms. In my room I can’t expect to find placement for more than one sub unless the second sub is very small and becomes an end table between a chair and a sliding glass door. I’m going to have to try a single sub approach and consider a second sub if I find that I have weakness from the LFE. This is part of why it’s important to me to find a single sub that can do as much as possible.

Bas – I suspect that I can’t afford those subwoofers but I also don’t recognize them. What brand and model are they? I will look forward to reading the file you attached after my workday. The subject of multiple subs and placement is familiar to me. Thanks.

Munch – I can appreciate a recommendation for the n-Sub but could you elaborate? Is your recommendation based upon experience with DBLs and the n-Sub? Are you recommending it because you believe it will be the best match of sonic character with the DBLs? Is there some other insight you’re willing to share?

Garyi – I’m going to be using the AV2 which would route low frequencies to the L-R DBLs. However, as I understand the processing specs (the industry spec - not limited to the AV2), the downmix does not provide the same level as would be provided to a dedicated subwoofer. Naturally – relieving the DBLs, and their amps, from the LFE requirements would also provide room for the DBLs to better deliver the rest of the frequency spectrum as they do so well. Thanks.

Thank you all for your posts! I look forward to more.
ATB
Mark

Hi Mark,
The recommendation was based on it is Naim and it would be the best match for your system.
As Naim use two a lot in there dems with SL2s.I would think they would go very well with DBLs
I have still yet to hear a pair of DBLs though.
What people say about them is they do bass and everything very well from what i have seen on here and in the press.
Good luck with your quest.
Regards Munch.

Thanks munch! I appreciate the follow-up and your logic. I think Naim has packaged some great features in the n-Sub and I look forward to finding out how well they perform on the lowest frequencies. (The DBLs are great speakers on the full range and I hope you have a chance to enjoy them sometime yourself.)
Thanks again.
ATB
Mark

Dear Mark,

The Sub on the picture above is a Tannoy Dimension TD Sub and it costs £4,500.00

One of the best features of the n-Sub is that you can change the settings with the remote control so you can optimize the sound from your listening position.

Regards
Bas

Thanks Bas! I see that this makes the Tannoy almost as expensive as the ATC 15". Ouch!

I agree that I think the remote control of the sub is a great facility to help with setup. One other great feature, to my mind, is the ability to save various settings (I believe up to 8) to fit different scenarios. It's a very promising sub - except that, with DBLs, I don't need most of it's frequency range and I do need the bottom frequencies where a 250mm woofer will have a harder job than a well-controlled larger woofer can provide. [The "well-controlled" qualifier is, I believe, one main reason that the expensive big woofers are so expensive. ;-) ]

Thanks again.
ATB
Mark

I have an nsub and it works extremely well, particularly with tractors on the Archers.

Nigel

Nigel,
Can you get the Archers in the USA?

quote:

Can you get the Archers in the USA?

I guess you'd download it from BBC listen again. Ed Grundy's lager-pouring tonight was most realistic! No need for a sub woofer though...

Nigel

The only time i ever listen to the Archers is when i have been in hospital.
Munch

Hi Mark,

I agree that if the subwoofer output is disabled then the LFE information is sent to the front speakers, but level-reduced.

As for the subwoofer: my dealer would say: n-Sub, all others are too slow for Naim speakers and will disturb the overall sound.

quote:

Originally posted by munch:
Nigel,
Can you get the Archers in the USA?

Yes - with an internet radio.

I have just ... turned mine off as the Archers began.

Thanks Margan! I can well appreciate your feedback! I would have wished for someone to be able to share a comment or two about use of ATC subwoofer(s). They are available in 12" and 15" and the 15" ATC (modified) is what has been used in the DBL. On that basis the ATC subwoof ought to be responsive enough and I would be optimistic about it being a good balance with DBLs. Unfortunately they are very expensive and I don't have a practical way to try out setups with n_Subs, ATC, Velodynes, etc. Last year I was able to try Hsu (larger) and Paradigm (15") units. That was good feedback and I found that the Hsu integrated better than, but didn't have as much low frequency strength of, the Paradigm.
We'll see what more people can share.
Thanks.
ATB
Mark

Hello Mark,

I am surprised Chris Bell hasn't chimed in with a little of his experience concerning the DBL and n-SUB. I have heard the n-SUB in his system a few times in his stereo setup and was impressed that it could have such a noticeable and positive contribution to what must surely be "enough" bass coming from the DBL loudspeaker. But his speakers fire down the long dimension of his room and his seating is a little more than half way back so bass low bass can seem to be missing a bit until you wander back to the far wall and find plenty of gut punching bass (boundary effect). So adding the n-SUB and having the ability to position that independently to load the room from a optimal location was very effective.

I use the n-SUB at Tune for the LFE in the theater and nutty stuff like the cannons from "Master and Commander" is just plain worrysome.

I brought SL2s into the shop recently but haven't paired them with the n-SUB yet. The finishes are different so I was afraid they wouldn't mate well. I have a pretty large room and the n-SUB should add some tasty fat to the lean SL2 presentation.

If you want to try 2 n-SUBs, I'm sure Bob and I could collaborate and stuff your listening room with stunning bass output. I think the n-SUB would make a lovely end table. And the woofer firing right into the couch? Youch! I remember hearing the HSU sub demo at a show and Dr. HSU liked to position the sub directly beside the listening position and have the satellites across the room. It made an amazingly convincing sound. Musical too.

Connon