Hi,
Well, I thought, if I'm not the only one interested in the n-sub, then maybe I should ask my questions, where people can see 'em if interested. First question is, where do the cables run into? What we see on the pictures is the front, right? I mean, the display is at the front and according to the drawing the speaker would be at the back. But I can't see any power supply or signal inputs. where will they be?

And now, I'd like to quote the questions I've asked on a different thread, because they are still the most important:

"Is it also possible to listen to hi and lo level at the same time? Probably yes, as most can, but I just want to check.

Because when watching movies, the LFE would supply the lo level but sometimes some extra bass info is on the center and or fronts which simultaniously can be taken care of by the sub through hi level.

As I am on the verge of ordering myself a n-sub, I would like to ask another one or two questions. Well, first of all of course the one above, and also, whether the frequency settings are adjustable for hi and lo level independenly, so you could e.g. have lo level cut off at 80Hz and hi level at 30-40 Hz at the same time, using both. And what will the minimum cut-off frequency be.

I also read in an earlier post (I think by Mr Graham, but not sure....somewhere in the heathrow thread I think), that the n-sub would not be shielded. Is that true? I know you have upgraded the Axess and shielded it, and I still some trouble with my unshielded version of my Axess. Now, a unshielded sub, standing next to the TV might cause serious disturbence or even damages. So will the sub really be unshielded? I wouldn't want to give away my working and not disturbing Ref 1s and then have shielding problems with the n-sub. I hope you understand.
So, will the n-sub be shielded or not and if not, will it overall be better "shielded" than the Axess?
And are the dimensions really only around 39x39x39cm?

And will the Daisy Chain be included in the package or not and what will it cost. DBA would be the aim, so Daisy Chain would be needed. And what effect will it have? Will volume etc. all be linked or will I still have to set each sub individually and the Daisy Chain only controlls timing? And will I be able, if needed due to different positions, to set them up individually although linked via Daisy Chain.
And what kind of hi level input will it be? For one or two hi level outputs? Hence, can I hook one sub up to left and center and the other one to right front and center or if using only one, hook it up to left and right front?
And last but not least, on the drwaings of the n-sub, it looks like the n-sub will be firing backwards, away from the listener and against the wall. Will this mean it will be complicated to position the speaker. Will it have to go against a wall, or is it allowed to go against a wall. I would have it standing (depending on how much is lost by the cable sticking out) between 3cm and absolute max of 8cm away.

I hope this isn't asking too much, but I would like to preorder soon if this sub is suitable for my system and my room. Of course, listening is the thing to do, but I must say, except for the Ariva, which simply isn't my cup of tea as far as bass reproduction is concerned, but other than that s a very nice speaker, all Naim speakers (I have heard so far) have convinced me, including the n-sats.

Oh, one last thing, do you know of any release dates yet? Rumours have it, that the n-sats might be ready for christmas, but will the n-sub be too? And will it really be a performance monster or is it, kind of matching the whole n-thing more of a small sub. Don't get me wrong, the n-sats are great, but the theme seems to be going into affordable, small in size home theatre, but I am looking for a sub to match my Allaes, one that can really shake the room and really go deep and loud if demanded.


Thanks very much,

Alex B."

OK, hope I'll get lucky today or at least by Monday

Thanks,

Alex

[This message was edited by Adam Meredith on Tue 14 December 2004 at 12:43.]

OK: I give up. Don't know why my request is unanswered, maybe someone felt attacked or unsulted or something, I don't know. Maybe there just wasn't the time to answer me, but I guess I'll just have to live with not getting any answers. OK. I'll have to tell my dealer on Monday, that I had no luck and hence probably won't be able to preorder any of the gear as I would either want to order it all at once or nothing at all. "Sad but true" someone once sang...

Alex
You asked a whole lot of questions about a brand new product.

To answer them I will have to talk to the design team. Friday was a busy day and the weekend is the weekend.

I will be looking at your post on Monday and may have some answers fairly soon after that. And, by the way, don't buy without listening.

Alex,

You should also have received an "Infoblatt" on the n series in the mail today -- might answer a few of your questions at least.

Thomas

No "info-blatt". Sorry.

Sorry Adam, If you had told me to wait and you would look into if for me, I would of course have waited. But without any replies, I was just getting a bit impatient, especially as I didn't want to keep my dealer hanging in there, waiting for me.

Well, although I criticized you a lot and have been "punished" for it, I do respect your work and love your speakers, all of them as far as I have heard (except the one...) and after being unsure whether you maybe had changed directions in speaker and elctronics sound (with all the entry level stuff), the n-sats have shown me, that you have not and your goal still seems to be to provide best musical equipment and not going mass market and suppling "easier listening" speaker like some other big brands do.
I am confident, that your n-sub will be gorgeous and the design already is. But i do of course need answers to all my questions (not meaning to rush you!) as I would like to preorder and need to be sure, that there isn't some technicallity which will keep me from using them to their fullest and which might have me buy a sub I can't use as good as the MJ Acoustic ones I own.

I don't see a big risk in trusting you with this, you have worked on it too long to just present us with an unworthy sub
My only fear is you making a sub for stereo music in addition to this homecinema and music sub....so please tell me you are not going to ever make a new one...for at least two years

And I would like to have it all sorted out at once. I am looking for a second and maybe third system for my bedroom and for my study, so maybe two pairs of n-sats (beautifull and great sound) and if I would, I would like to buy a sub too, if possible and replace the ones I have (although they are perfect and sound just the was I want them to, I have always wanted a Naim sub...I wanted to buy a sub wit my Naim dealer a year ago but he only had B&W and I didn't like them, because he would have taken whatever sub I would have taken, back, and that money could have been fully used for a Naim sub. But that didn't happen, so now I would like to make it up and finally get an all Naim speaker system....electronics are still out of reach....I don't want one I will want to upgrade next month...so nothing smaller than an all 250 plus AV3 (or whatever one will be available by the time I can afford it).

So thanks Adam, and I hope it's OK for me to call you Adam instead of Mr Meredith. But I'll do the latter if you would prefer me to.

First question is, where do the cables run into? What we see on the pictures is the front, right? I mean, the display is at the front and according to the drawing the speaker would be at the back. But I can't see any power supply or signal inputs. where will they be?
They connect on the underside of the unit.

Is it also possible to listen to hi and lo level at the same time? Probably yes, as most can, but I just want to check.
No – that would not make sense – just as you cannot use your tuner and cd inputs at the same time. However, there are inputs for mono, stereo and Direct High Level. Using Presets (of which there are 6) you can set up combinations of INPUT, Gain, Frequency, Invert and each of these can be given a label.

Because when watching movies, the LFE would supply the lo level but sometimes some extra bass info is on the center and or fronts which simultaneously can be taken care of by the sub through hi level.
Well, first of all of course the one above, and also, whether the frequency settings are adjustable for hi and lo level independently, so you could e.g. have lo level cut off at 80Hz and hi level at 30-40 Hz at the same time, using both. And what will the minimum cut-off frequency be.
20Hz – 250Hz

See above. There are 6 user definable presets. These can each have a combination of choices for each of the parameters detailed previously.

Is the n-sub shielded.
No it is not shielded – you MUST check its suitability with your television and your intended position.

And are the dimensions really only around 39x39x39cm?
They are 38.5 x 38.5 x 38.3 deep

And will the Daisy Chain be included in the package or not and what will it cost.
No it will not be included – price as yet unknown.

The Subs can be linked via sub cable for RC5 remote commands. Through this the various subs will be switched between Presets. Each sub will need to have THE SAME NUMBER preset set to the required values for that combination as the remote will switch all subs to the same number preset (although the settings for this preset may vary sub to sub).

And what kind of hi level input will it be? For one or two hi level outputs? Hence, can I hook one sub up to left and center and the other one to right front and center or if using only one, hook it up to left and right front?
You can do this.

And last but not least, on the drawings of the n-sub, it looks like the n-sub will be firing backwards, away from the listener and against the wall. Will this mean it will be complicated to position the speaker. Will it have to go against a wall, or is it allowed to go against a wall. I would have it standing (depending on how much is lost by the cable sticking out) between 3cm and absolute max of 8cm away.
Yes it can go close to a wall or a distance away.

Oh, one last thing, do you know of any release dates yet? Rumors have it, that the n-sats might be ready for Christmas, but will the n-sub be too? And will it really be a performance monster or is it, kind of matching the whole n-thing more of a small sub. Don't get me wrong, the n-sats are great, but the theme seems to be going into affordable, small in size home theatre, but I am looking for a sub to match my Allaes, one that can really shake the room and really go deep and loud if demanded.
We should have a number ready before Christmas.
You are going to have to audition the nSub – as it is a product of Naim it will tend to have qualities that allow it to work well for music. This may be perceived as detrimental to tsunamis of trouser flapping infra bass. You will be the judge.

Great! Thank you very much. I would just like to explain one thing. The hi and lo level one.

Idea was (and that's how I am using my Ref 1s, because they permitt this) that the Allaes and the Axess roll of beneath the 40Hz quite noticably. Now I have set my Hi level input to a certain volume level and to about 45Hz, so the sub on Hi level makes up for the information not presented by the front and center speakers. But at the same time, when watching movies with 5.1, the lo level would also be getting information, which needs to be cut off at 80Hz, because cutting off lower would mean severe information loss. Also teh lo level is set to a different volume than the hi level.
Both run simultaniously at different level settings and different cross-over freqeuncies but at the same time. I get best results this way.
So, if I understand you correctly, this will not be possible?

And you wrote
"
However, there are inputs for mono, stereo and Direct High Level. Using Presets (of which there are 6) you can set up combinations of INPUT, Gain, Frequency, Invert and each of these can be given a label.
"
Those this mean I could have the direct hi level and a lo level input running at the same time, which would mean I could do it my way, or not. Because you wrote "combination of Input" and not only one input at a time.

Interesting

quote:

---

You are going to have to audition the nSub – as it is a product of Naim it will tend to have qualities that allow it to work well for music. This may be perceived as detrimental to tsunamis of trouser flapping infra bass. You will be the judge.

---

I hope I am not butting in here, as your comments were in reply to Alex B, however I have an interest in the n-sub as well, mostly for HT use, and with the flexibilty of it's connections, perhaps to supplement my SBL's for 2 channel music use.

Re the paper specs - does the lower limit of 20hz reflect an in room figure, or anechoic? and is there a Db figure available please.

Movie bass is difficult IMV, as on one hand one wants if not tsunamis of bass, at least bass you can feel as well as hear (dinosaur footstomps and all that) BUT not if it is going to boom, or be slow and lacking transient attack. That always seems to be the tradeoff with large drivers for HT - they do the infrasonics well, but not with speed and articulation, let alone detail.

Personally, I'd love to have the same qualities of bass as my SBL's do, but able to play reliably louder and deeper without strain for those movie moments. With a sealed box, and the driver being loaded also by the wall, maybe this will be possible. As an aside, would two units improve this aspect of things?

Many thanks

Best Regards

John...

This is my last upgrade.... after this my system will be finished...:-)

1) If you use the bass mix funtion then you only need a single connection to the AV2 (sub out from AV2 to AV input on n-Sub. The bass mix function additionally routes the bass component from large loudspeakers to the sub.

2) 20Hz measured in room. No dB figure available as the real world frequency response varies so greatly given room size, placement and wall type.

Adam,

does this mean only with AV2, then?

cheers, Martin

E-mail:- MartinPayne (at) Dial.Pipex.com. Put "Naim" in the title.

Greetings All

Adam, thank you for your illuminating and helpful comments.

May I just endeavour to clarify my thoughts re the mentioned bass mix function.

As I understand it, this is more a function of the AV2 than the N-sub? - from the AV2 manual:

quote:

---

Bass Mix:The Bass Mix option routes sub-woofer channel information additionally to the main left and right loudspeakers. It is selected or disabled by pressing the menukey followed by the 1key. Bass Mix will have no effect if “small” main left and right speakers are specified.

---

As I understand it, this would mean that with the sub 'seeing' full range information from the AV2, as well as the sats, then operating 'bass mix' would route the LFE as well into the sub signal, so the sub would then effectively see both the full range signal (hence underpinning the sats or other large 'main' speakers) plus the LFE. Hope I got this right!

Relating this to non-AV2 processors, I'm thinking the same thing could possibly be achieved with mains speakers set to large, with a speaker level link say between the speakers and the N-sub, and then setting sub to 'off' in the processor - this normally routes the LFE to any other speakers set to large. Hence the N-sub would underpin the bass of any speakers connected with it, plus reproduce the LFE.

Heh, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this - this AV/HT malarky is a whole new ball game..

Many thanks

Best Regards

John...

This is my last upgrade.... after this my system will be finished...:-)

I pass ALL of this to those who know - answer follows tomorrow.

[This message was edited by Adam Meredith on Tue 14 December 2004 at 12:44.]

Well, the bass mix is probably just the name on AV2s.

For instance, my Pioneer AVR can be set to "Sub Yes" "Sub No" and "Sub PLUS". Yes and no are obvious. When on yes, only the .1 from 5.1 sound is sent to the subwoofer output. If set to "PLUS", the signal going to the fronts is also (in addition to sending it to the fronts) being sent to the subwoofer output. This is possible with most (at least the newer) receivers. So, if you hook it up via your subwoofer output of your Receiver and set it to "PLUS" or whatever it's called on your AVR, you won't need to additonally connect the Hi Level input, as all signals are being sent through the Lo Level.

But check whether your Receiver has such a function. AV2 seemingly has.

Adam, if I may ask, have you had a listen to the n-sub. I have heard, from a guy who has actually listened to one, that they sound marvelous. Fast, precise and apparently no problems with the backfiring against the wall, although I would have thought that would be a big problem if no wall or only a thin wall was being used. But he said no.
Have you any experiences....soundwise?

Did we ever get an answer to whether/how the unit could be used in a two-channel system?

G

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
I pass ALL of this to those who know (I am tediously 2 channel, so far) - answer follows tomorrow.

---

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.



Sorry for the huge delay in getting an answer posted – I was questing answers and hoping not to return bearing an idiot’s tale.

Some confusion may have arisen (quite reasonably) from an error in the original description of the Bass Mix function.

Original AV2 manual: -
Bass Mix: The Bass Mix option routes sub-woofer channel information additionally to the
main left and right loudspeakers. It is selected or disabled by pressing the menu key
followed by the 1 key. Bass Mix will have no effect if “small” main left and right speakers
are specified.

This is now corrected to:

Combined DVD5 AV2 Manual
(downloadable at http://216.149.62.210/download/man_dvd5-av2_english.pdf )
19.7.2 Bass Mix
The Bass Mix option routes main left and right loudspeaker bass information to the sub-woofer. It is selected or disabled by pressing the handset menu key followed by the 1 key.
Note: Bass Mix is useful for encode formats that carry no specific sub-woofer information.

So – that will help with two channel systems.

I would advise –
Home Cinema – connect sub via dedicated line level Sub Out.
2 channel make an additional connection (high level using leads from the speaker end of the speaker cables.

These 2 options can be selected via the N-SUB remote control.

N-SUB likes to be near a solid wall but will work in other locations – probably best to keep it away from flimsy walls.

quote:

---

N-SUB likes to be near a solid wall but will work in other locations – probably best to keep it away from flimsy walls.

---

Adam,

Have you tried two N-subs in two channel?

Hi,

Adam,
I have a simple 2 questions.

Can you connect the sub from, say the 3rd or 4th outputs from a hicap etc into it to use with, say, SL2's and also connect a high level phono out from an av processor at the same time?

I have read about the in puts but assume they are both the same 'level' but from different sources?

Reason I ask Is I would use one setting for the SL2's when playing stereo, and another when using av. I would not wish to use the in put that involves runs of cable from the main speakers to the kit. I would prefer to use some sort of 'snaic' from the hicap/supercap2, and then a sub lead from the processor etc.

thanks for any replies.

andy c!

Andy,
It is functionnally ok to do it as you describe. My question is will this long cable attached to the hicap/supercap affect the signal sent to the main amp?

Emmanuel
Euphonie

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

I was told yesterday by a very helpful gentleman in the Service Dept (who shall remain nameless) that I could use a single N-Sub in a two channel system simply by plugging an extra signal lead into the back of the Supercap which sits between my preamp and power amps. In other words, no need to use a SNAXO or anything complicated.

So I imagine that it could be powered off a HiCap used to feed a preamp.

Strange, though, that it is all so mysterious.

G

The problem is down to length.

At the standard SNAIC length - no problem. As you add cable you run the risk of causing some instability on the output. This can be overcome by making up a special lead with resistors in line - or incorporating these in the output circuit.

I had assumed that we would prefer the line level connection but initial trials indicated that the High Level (speaker) input might be preferable - as REL has found.

I will post when I have condensed the results of further listening tests.

I had assumed that we would prefer the line level connection but initial trials indicated that the High Level (speaker) input might be preferable - as REL has found.

I will post when I have condensed the results of further listening tests.


This is why I joined the Forum all those years ago.......

To be IN at the development stage of new products

Cheers

Don

Seriously.

Adam,
so if i understand, the very best way is to use a "cheap" NAP connected to the supercap to drive the long cable to the sub Hi-level input.

Emmanuel
Euphonie

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

quote:

---

Originally posted by andy c:
Hi,

Adam,
I have a simple 2 questions.

Can you connect the sub from, say the 3rd or 4th outputs from a hicap etc into it to use with, say, SL2's and also connect a high level phono out from an av processor at the same time?

I have read about the in puts but assume they are both the same 'level' but from different sources?

Reason I ask Is I would use one setting for the SL2's when playing stereo, and another when using av. I would not wish to use the in put that involves runs of cable from the main speakers to the kit. I would prefer to use some sort of 'snaic' from the hicap/supercap2, and then a sub lead from the processor etc.

thanks for any replies.

andy c!

---

The n-SUB has 3 inputs:
1) mono phono (low level)
2) stereo phono (low level - mixed to mono internally)
3) Speaker connections (high level)

These can all be connected at once - the choice of ACTIVE input being made within the parameters for each (of 6) preset option groups.

The output from the system to the n-SUB must be post-volume-control. The suggested configuration (output from supercap to n-SUB) is fine.

quote:

---

The output from the system to the n-SUB must be post-volume-control. The suggested configuration (output from supercap to n-SUB) is fine.

---

so, adam, I could connect the supercap to n-supvia the mono phono (using a 3rd party lead from, say, Chord) and connect a processor via stereo phono? (or even the other way round?)

andy c!

Andy,

other way around.

If you do as you suggest, the main system will be forced to play mono through your front speaker pair!!

cheers, Martin

E-mail:- MartinPayne (at) Dial.Pipex.com. Put "Naim" in the title.

Cheers Martin!

andy c!