As it looks increasing ly likely I'm off to Crieff I'm going to need a car. Not having any money whatsoever aand having very high standards I have a bit of a dilemma. What to get. Up until now I've taken no interest in the things so I've no idea where to start.

What I'm looking for is

• Comfort
• accelaration
• decent gear box
• economic
• well built

It will be predominantly driven around mountain roads but with the odd long-haul motorway trip to England and Wales. And I have to buy secondhand.

My initial research has come up with a short list

• Ford Focus Hatchback 2.0i 16v Zetec
• Ford Focus Saloon 2.0i 16v Ghia
• Ford Mondeo Saloon 2.0i 16v Zetec
• Mazda 6 Saloon 2.0 TS
• Nissan Primera Saloon 2.2 dCi Sv
• Seat Cordoba 1.9 TDi S 100 bhp
• Seat Léon 1.6 16v SE (125hp)
• Seat Toledo 1.8 20v SE
• Skoda Superb 1.8T Classic
• Toyota Avensis Saloon 1.8 VVT-i T2
• Toyota Corolla Hatchback T2 2.0 D-4D (90bhp)
• Toyota Yaris T Sport 1.5 VVT-i
• Vauxhall Astra Hatchback SXi 1.8i 16v
• Vauxhall Vectra Saloon 1.8 16v Active
• Volkswagen Golf 1.6 SE

Which of this lot should I concentrate on?

Tom

Actively enjoying it all

Try a Golf TDi.
Good at most on your list and good low torque acceleration for those mountain roads...
Downside is they do hold their 2nd hand values...

Tom,

I thought you'd want 4 wheel drive? What's your budget?

Dave

Tom,

If you are going to be driving on mountain roads I would put handling on your list as well, it will make the car much more comfortable to drive.

Matthew

Hi
If you do decide on a Ford Focus, try a 1.8 turbo deisel, they are fine machines, fast, economical and handle superbly. I have had one for nearly 3 years and honestly can't fault it.
Regards
Jim

Moving to Crieff - lucky boy, it's a nice town with some pleasant hills (including a Munro) right on your doorstep. If you do move up let me know and perhaps we could meet up to climb Ben Chonzie as I haven't been up there for a few years (and it's over 10 years since I walked to the top).

I know the roads (and hills) in that area well and most of the cars you mention will be fine - I'd add the Honda Accord to your list as well (but I'm biased 'cause that's what I'd drive).

You might want to consider something with 4-wheel drive as well, especially if you're planning walking trips in the winter as early starts will often see you out on the roads before they've been cleared and/or gritted.

Regards
Steve

Well 4x4 would be nice but not essential I guess, handling sort of goes with gear box as I don't like slowing for bends and as for price, as little as possible but probably around the £6-10k mark but I don't know what's reasonable.

Steve you hava a PT

Tom

Actively enjoying it all

Tom
have you considered a Volvo 940 especially
the estate version, designed by the Swedes for just those type of conditions,remember the Swedish winters,inexpensive to buy,very comfortable, good pay load, very reliable[ mine has now done 110,000 miles in 6 years with so far the only costs have been petrol and services]
about 32 miles per gallon all the usual safety features that you would expect from the Company thay made it's name from it's approach to passenger safety etc. And finaly if you should be so unlucky to meet some of our other naimee's with their 400bhp cars coming the other way you have plenty of Swedish steel around you
oldie.

A 4x4 that handles and can perform like a GTI?

Subaru Forester Turbo S

No problem

P

I'd second the Forrester Turbo although you're unlikely to get more than 27-28 to the gallon. If you go to the Subaru site, you can look at the used stock. There's a nice one in Haslemere for just under £10K.

Also, what about a Impreza Turbo, especially the 5 door? The Scottish roads were made for them.

Dave

Whatever make you get, make sure that there is a local agent or specialist within vehicle pushing distance of the new home

Derek

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Tom,

The main thing to bear in mind when buying a secondhand car is the availability. Take a trip to a good dealer and you will see rows of the same vehicles from fleet sales. The more common the car the better your bargain.

I've just bought a car and found that there were plenty of Vectra, Mondeo and Focus. You can buy three year old, 13,000 miles Vectra (old shape) for £6,000. This car will give you everything you need and leave you with money to spend it on more worthwhile products.

The problem with "so called" better cars like VW, is the ridiculous resale value. Diesel are also very expensive.

Before anyone accuses me of liking tame, common road cars, I use them to get from A to B safely. I then spend the money saving on toys.

I've been put off Ford and Vauxhall due to build quality problems and crap dealerships and personally I'd be unlikely to consider one again.

The Focus is supposed to be better (and the folks I know that have them seem to think they're ok) but when you can buy and run a slightly older Honda for the same price I know which I'd choose (and have chosen, several times).

Regards
Steve

I have looked at Subaru but the good ones have a slight drawback. My wife is learning to drive and insurance is a problem. the lesser models don't compare favourably with the list above. So back to the drawing board.

Count D, I agree quite often you pay for branding, hence the lack of sparkle in my list. All good cheap unexciting but practical and perform on paper as well as the more upmarket models.

What I'm asking you guys is am I on the right track and if so which of these models is a good ride and reliable. Once I'm confidant I know what to look at I'll pop in to Perth and do some foot work and I'll scan the papers for bargains.

Tom

Actively enjoying it all

Tom

How about the Skoda Ocatvia in diesel form. Bags of room especially in the estate version, solid build, sound handling, cheap to insure, cheap to service. Bloke at works got one and it's a decent car and returns 52 mpg. The "image" thing is history now and you get lots of car for not a lot of money.

Not sure on the dealer coverage but worth a look.

Happy hunting

Spock

Tom

The Focus is widely thought of to be the best of 'that sort of car', especially in terms of being a drivers car. It comes with a couple of drawbacks - it's a Focus and is very popular as a company car, so it has f*ck all residual value (possibly a good thing?); it looks like a Focus.

I don't have much experience of many of the other cars, but can vouch for the Golf. I have a 1.6 Match, and it's great. The SE is similar spec, with additional cupholders (woohoo) and stereo controls on the steering wheel.

The Golf TDi (a l.9) might be a good idea, I found that diesels in general are cheaper to insure than petrol versions. YMMV obviously. I have many doubts about what might happen to diesel prices in the medium term - I suspect that they may rise dramatically. Worth considering, maybe.

Vauxhalls are atrocious. Avoid them like the pox. As are Mondeo's - you are not a salesman!

Also, Seats/Skoda's/VW's are all essentially the same car with different body shells on the top. So reliability should be similar.

It might be worth you picking up a copy of this month's Top Gear Magazine, or looking on the Top Gear Website as the results of the Top Gear Owners survey have been published. You will find many handy comments about 137 different cars, as completed by people that actually own them.

ag

Tom

I am surprised that you have not considered an estate given that you are going to be out in the wilds with the potential of camping and lugging bales of hay about etc that outdoor folk in the country lug about plus the speakers and other non trivial sized things for the audio interest.

Derek

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Vauxhalls are atrocious. Avoid them like the pox. As are Mondeo's - you are not a salesman!

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What a load of bollocks.

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It might be worth you picking up a copy of this month's Top Gear Magazine, or looking on the Top Gear Website as the results of the Top Gear Owners survey have been published. You will find many handy comments about 137 different cars, as completed by people that actually own them.

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People who write crap for surveys are the same people who write crap on forums.

Tom, like myself, doesn't give a toss what image a car is supposed to portray. What we have in our next garage doesn't get disclosed.

Hi Tom

Living in Glasgow and having a passion for collecting whisky, my car has been all over the highlands.

VW Golf Gti Diesel (150bhp)

Masses of torque, acceleration to die for and serious mpg. Forget the cost of diesel at the pump - you get twice the mpg !

Oh, and the back seats fold down if necessary........

Add the long term nature of these cars, great residuals and the "feel good factor" the Golf offers and you will be happy.

We have an "M" plate Mk3 Golf diesel in our company with nearly 200,000 miles on the clock and it still starts first time, every time.

There are many other cars that better the Golf in one area or another but these cars very often fail seriously in other areas - basically the Golf is a seriously sensible car to own.

Might also be worth considering the Passat at the moment - my dealer is selling them very favourably as there is an upgrade very soon. I would imagine most dealers will have something on the forecourt they need to shift.......

Ok, mine was over budget new for you but look at the diesel Golfs seriously as a second-hand option.

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There are many other cars that better the Golf in one area or another but these cars very often fail seriously in other areas

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My brother bought a Golf from new and the whole engine needed replacing(luckily within the warranty).

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Might also be worth considering the Passat at the moment

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While you're passing on your wisdom, maybe you should take a look at cost of these secondhand cars.

What I love about mass production road cars, is the way rubber suspension links influence the handling characteristics. Yet all/most of you seem to waver this as insignificant. Or don't you care/know how a car handles.