My dealer has the first ten speed Dura-Ace guppos in the UK (or so he says) Anyone tried it yet? Any views?

I'm thinking of getting it put on the C40.

Tim

Some shops had the new 10s for testing last weekend (13/14 sept), but I didn't have any opportunity to try it. I will try it next sunday at Milan cycling exhibition and will report.

However, I saw it in the flesh in may, and was impressed about some innovations.

Most professionals who are using it have reported enthusiastic comments, especially for the shifting mechanism.

Some people say that the new crankset/bottom bracket may have some trouble (too stiff?) but it's only rumors.
BTW I was in Paris for the arrival of the Tour and had the oppurtunity to observe some professionals' bikes equipped with the new Dura Ace groupset. Only a few had the new crankset/bottom bracket. Most had preferred the old one.

As far as the look is concerned, I prefer the old one.

Stefano.

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I'm thinking of getting it put on the C40.

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infidel!

International Disaster

Chaps

Japanese parts should never be used on European frames. It's just wrong.

Regards

Ludwig (sarcastically doing my Mick Parry impression )

Tim,

Surely it's time to upgrade - the new C50 can be had with 10 speed Campy. A snip at around $6K.

cheers

Dan

BTW Campagnolo is now offering a new 2004 Record, although most innovation is just cosmetic.
If the upgrade bug has hit you once again you might start thinking at the 2005 electronic Record...

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infidel!

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...forgive me, for I have sinned:
My time trial bike is equipped with a Shimano Ultegra. And even worse, I like how it works.
Stefano

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Originally posted by Stefano Rosati:
BTW Campagnolo is now offering a new 2004 Record, although most innovation is just cosmetic.
If the upgrade bug has hit you once again you might start thinking at the 2005 electronic Record...

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Hopefully you might be able to help me here Stefano. What advantages does electronic shifting offer? I can't see any benefit in it. In fact, it just seems like a disaster waiting to happen. Is there some inherent problem with cable shifting that I'm not aware of?

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...forgive me, for I have sinned:
My time trial bike is equipped with a Shimano Ultegra. And even worse, I like how it works.

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oh, the shame of it all.

Speaking of Campy, does anyone have the Campy carbon seat post? I was thinking of getting one, but there seem to be lots of reports of breakages, and the seat post is not the place to have a sharp, upturned piece of carbon fibre (ouch!). I've ordered the Campy titanium seatpost instead. Any experiences with this?

Stefano, how does Ultegra compare with Record for ease and smoothness of shifting? I'm quite impressed with the Ultegra groupset on my Trek, but already thinking of using Record with the De Rosa King* I plan to buy next (since I've now had the Trek for all of three weeks!).

Ross

* Saw the De Rosa in a bike shop on the weekend, as well as the C40. The C40 was great, but with the De Rosa it was lust at first sight.

Dan -

Actually you're right - I may save up for a new frame to put the DA ten speed on - maybe a C50, but the carbon Cervelo looks good too and might, just possibly, be a bit cheaper...

It's only three months since I bought the C40. Oh well.

John/Ludwig -

I don't buy this stuff about not putting Shimmy on Italian frames. Most of the pro teams who rode/ride C40s put Dura Ace on them. FWIW I like both DA and Record - and think they stack up a bit like this:

Shimmy DA - Upside: Bit cheaper than Record (at least the 9-speed was), slightly easier to set up, slightly more robust, better shifting while on the drops.

Downside: Always seems a bit noisier than Campy stuff, you can only shift one cog at a time, no funky carbon fibre, very slightly heavier than Record, spongey brakes

Campy Record - Upside: Looks nicer, more purist, multiple shifts possible (actually I do miss that), more 'definite' shifts, better brakes.

Downside: Expensive, reputedly more fragile, carbon fibre parts no substitute for genuine technical improvement, shifting up while in the drops is a nightmare unless you have double-jointed thumbs.

It's just that for me, Shimano wins out by a whisker - plus all my other bikes and wheelsets are Shimmy, so moving to Campy would be a tad inconvenient...

Tim

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What advantages does electronic shifting offer?

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Frankly speaking, I have no idea. At the moment it's only rumors, nothing has been officially confirmed from Campagnolo. I believe it's mainly a marketing move, similarly to what happens in the hifi market (companies MUST invent something different, not necessarily better). It will cost a fortune, probably.

There's nothing wrong with cable shifting! Actually ALL modern groupsets work very well and there's little room for improvement.

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Speaking of Campy, does anyone have the Campy carbon seat post?

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I had one, now I have the carbon Colnago one which is supplied with the bike and looks very similar to the campy one. I have always considered it as one of the safest places to hold a seat, I have never heard of a broken one. Certainly it's overpriced, but if you buy the whole groupset it's included in the price... so why not? Because of the technology cascade, the titan setpost is now part of the Chorus groupset I believe. I also had one on my old titanium Bianchi. Worked well until I tried to lift the seat and discovered it was glued to the frame and could not move it!

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Stefano, how does Ultegra compare with Record for ease and smoothness of shifting?

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Since it's a TT bike I don't have the integrated brake/shifters levers, I have separate brakes and small shifter on the aero bar. However, shifting is extremely smooth, certainly not worse than the Record. Given the wide price gap, the Ultegra is definitely the way to go for nearly top bikes. You can buy a Record for 1.250 Euro while an Ultegra sells for 590 Euro down here (pedals not included), while the Chorus (Ultegra's competitor) is 950 Euro (street prices, much lower than official ones).

Stefano

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but already thinking of using Record with the De Rosa King* I plan to buy next

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I may save up for a new frame to put the DA ten speed on - maybe a C50, but the carbon Cervelo looks good too and might, just possibly, be a bit cheaper...

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OK please tell me you're both joking... Your bikes are not even run in and should last several years!
A brand new bike won't let you ride faster (Tim) or won't help your feet get out from clipless pedals (Ross)

My 2001 C40/Record is now entering its 3rd racing season (nearly 40.000 km in the sun, rain, dirt, wind - and snow one day) and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. I have only replaced the chain (at 4.000 km interval), the rear rim and the crankset since I moved from 170 to 172.5 mm. Plus the right brake/shifter carbon lever was replaced by Campagnolo for free.

So please stop thinking about upgrading your bike, but train hard and ride faster and faster and faster...

Stefano

Stefano -

I, uh, do realise that a new bike won't make me a faster rider. I train hard no matter what bike I have and am currently training on my 'heavy' (i.e. 8.5kg) Deda7003/Ultegra bike and racing (increasingly successfully) on the C40. If I do get a C50 or the Cervelo it won't be until early next year. Anyhow I'm going to sell the Principia

Buying a new bike is like upgrading your hi-fi. It won't improve your taste in music, but will make you want to explore music more.

Tim

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It's only three months since I bought the C40.

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plus:

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If I do get a C50 or the Cervelo it won't be until early next year.

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So it makes six months... which is a very long time compared to:

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...the De Rosa King* I plan to buy next (since I've now had the Trek for all of three weeks!).

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However as you well know I'm only kidding.
Obviously I have nothing against people upgrading/downgrading/sidegrading their bike frequently, and must admit that I'm continuosly tempted about buying an aluminium bike (NOT to replace the C40 BTW). Not to mention wheels...

Stefano.

Stefano -

I think you're just jealous...

If you're looking for an aluminium bike, I suggest you find someone who has a second-hand Principia for sale.

Tim

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OK please tell me you're both joking... Your bikes are not even run in and should last several years!
A brand new bike won't let you ride faster (Tim) or won't help your feet get out from clipless pedals (Ross)

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Only half joking, Stefano. My current Trek is a great bike, and modestly priced compared to the Colnagos, Pinarellos and De Rosas, and it is probably ideal for a novice like me. However, within a year or so I expect to want something lighter and more comfortable, which means carbon fibre, and if you're going to spend that much on a bike, you might as well buy one that is a work of art like the Colnago or De Rosa. Also, I get the feeling that riding a Trek is like driving a Toyota - competent but commonplace and dull - while riding a De Rosa or Colnago is like driving a Maserati. I don't actually want a Maserati, but I do want a De Rosa (which is funny, because a month ago I'd never heard of either De Rosa or Colnago).

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So please stop thinking about upgrading your bike, but train hard and ride faster and faster and faster...

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I plan to train pretty hard on it for at least a year before buying a new bike. I'm already doing about 200km a week, and expect to increase that substantially as the strength improves and I find some long group rides. But asking someone to stop thinking about upgrading - now you are being completely unreasonable.

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Obviously I have nothing against people upgrading/downgrading/sidegrading their bike frequently, and must admit that I'm continuosly tempted about buying an aluminium bike (NOT to replace the C40 BTW).

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What would you buy, and for what purpose? Are you looking for something lighter and stiffer for shorter races?

Incidentally, how can anyone not want one of these ...



Ross

Oooh I dunno Ross - they are not especially light and had a terrible review from a Mr Chris Boardman in Procycling recently. he seemed to feel they their geometry makes them handle like a welder's bench.

Also they're very expensive and have a bit of a poseur reputation (nothing like a C40 obviously )...

If I was going to buy a De Rosa it would either be a Dual (the U2/carbon one) or a Merak (the V107 one which has a great pro pedigree).

Tim

Tim, I was joking about a Japanese groupo on an Italian frame. Why would I care what anyone puts on their bike?

Re: electronic shifting, a friend once had a Serotta Ti frame w/ Mavic Zap 6-volt setup and while very interesting it didn't work as well as a mechanical system.

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If you're looking for an aluminium bike, I suggest you find someone who has a second-hand Principia for sale.

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Come on Tim, it's not the Principia I'm interested in but you know I might be after your brand new C40

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I think you're just jealous...

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True. You really don't have a clue about how many times I've been reading the 'road bikes guide' looking for the frame and accessories that would suit me best... The point is I always end up with a C40/Record!

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What would you buy, and for what purpose? Are you looking for something lighter and stiffer for shorter races?

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I would certainly buy a custom made Airplane (by Columbus) or the Dedacciai equivalent. I don't mind the make, in this case. I'm not an ultra light frame freak, but I'm looking for a stiff bike with a very quick response. That would be ideal for short races, but I do plan to use it for long races as well.
In fact I'm lucky enough I don't feel any kind of pain at my back even after hours and hours, plus I generally use low profile tubular wheels for racing, which really help as far as comfort is concerned.

The King is wonderful, as is the Carrera Pitbull which has a very similar design. Actually a couple of friends have swapped their C40 for one of these and swear the Carrera is better.

Ludwig
the Mavic Mechtronic was a complete failure and the Campy will certainly have nothing in common with it.

Stefano.

Colnago site updated!

Colnago has unveiled some new stuff for 2004 and I'm really impressed. Have a close look before you plan your next upgrade move.


My C40 is obsolete today

Oh my God. I've got to have one. It does look a bit like the new Trek frame though. I think it's going to have to be a C50 in PR4...

Anyone wanna buy a CDS2/52/135/SBL system?

It's about time Colnago updated their site. I've never heard of some of those frames ('Active'? 'Mix'? 'Rapid'?). Nice to see that they're updating from CT1 to CT2 as well, but it looks like more of the frames are sloping, so perhaps Sgr. Ernesto is compromising his principles...

Tim