Tony,

which crossover are you using? Have you tried a new snaxo242 with supercap?

I, too, have found SL2s to be somewhat more room dependant than SBLs which seem to work well in most rooms. That said, the SL2 needs to be near the back wall, more so than the SBL (which I have seen work well away from the wall at two locations now). If you can't get the right speaker near the wall, I'm not surprised that you got the results you did.

I am surprised, however, that you didn't try driving the Focals with one 250. The 1000 series is a piece of cake to drive. Even a 250 would drive them without problems. At least you would have heard them in your environment, and since the guys had gone to the trouble it seems a shame you didn't take the opportunity.

The issue possibly highlighted here is to alter one variable only at a time i.e. on this occ the speakers.

Begs the question 'how do you know the 250 won't drive em?'

I'm sure if we'd have had the time we would have done, but we were all pretty "Hi-fied out" by the end of the afternoon!

If we can't find an obvious solution to the SL2 problem (and you may well be right Frank)I'm sure that'll be next on the agenda.

Tony,

Well . . . it certainly was interesting! And the soup has no ill effects(!) Thanks to both of you for the hospitality.

Whilst it is true that our demo SL2's were slightly less good than JN's brand new ones - a diplomatic result if nothing else - what we had here was MUCH more dramatic.The SL2's represented nice-but-boring versus very engaging and interesting but comparatively unrefined SBLs. To their credit, the SBL's sounded HUGE and extremely dynamic with the SL2's needing something to ignite them. It's a pity that time contraints knocked the 1027's to one side but our feeling was that the qualities you were enjoying were not going to be enhanced by a change in their direction.We both had evening commitments (the joys of parent's evening in my case). In any case, we can revisit that option at a later date.

The listening room is very long (more than 45' in total?) and the listening position roughly 2/3rds way down. One speaker is close(ish) to a wall but the wall steps back on one side and the other sits in front of 1 foot deep shelving. None of these constraints are really negotiable, given that it integrates with a home theatre installation.

A quick play here has brought some kind of clarity. Running our uninspiring SL2's (shall I just post the serial numbers and get it over with!?) in passive mode in our 22'6" x 14" on a 282/HC/250 gave a better result that we had with the 52/active 250's yesterday. More slam, more involvement but maybe less speed. Mind you it was CD versus vinyl.

Switching to the NAP 300 gave a sound MUCH more reminiscent of the good elements of the active SBL's. Loads more information, scale and engagement. A hugely more interesting sound with the refinement and weight that the SBLs missed. Given the unusual loadings and the large volume to be driven in Tony's room, I think that we need to investigate how a more muscular amplifier (in passive operation) will help. We have the NAP 300 here and should have our NAP 500 soon. This might be fun!

Make sense?

Thanks again for the hands-on learning opportunity. It really is an interesting business, this!

Alastair

quote:

The listening room is very long (more than 45' in total?) and the listening position roughly 2/3rds way down

The idea of sitting 30 feet from the speakers is interesting. Would it not be possible to have the speakers hard against the side wall and firing across? Or to sit nearer to the speakers? With SL2s you really need a 300 to get the best from them - the lardy old 250.2 is simply not right with them.

Nigel

quote:

Originally posted by northpole:
If memory serves Michael, didn't you discover a problem with Peter's demo sl2's when he installed the brand new ones?

I wondered if there could have been any similarities.

Peter

Sorry! Come back in here a bit late. The new SL2s defintely a fuller presentation from the off, brand spanking new and fresh out of the box. Peter is unsure whether there has been a change to the tweeter-mounting A-frame or whether his were just a little tired after all the demo work. Noehteless an a-0frame change has I believe wrought the difference.

Still, as John points out, sounds like this is someting ver different.

My findings re positiong of SL2 close to a wall are the same as Frank's. Mine are currently as close as the carpet grippers will allow...

Iy will be interesting to hear how the amp experiments go. I certinaly found that the 300 delivered greater scale and control compared to the 250.2.

Cheers

Mike

Thank you for all the useful feedback folks.

Nigel, repositioning the speakers elsewhere in the room isn't an option due to their use as part of my Home Cinema system. Here's a picture of the current arrangement :-


I actually sit 22ft back from the speakers (just measured it!)

Undoubtedly the compromises I've made for the sake of the Cinema also compromise the stereo sound to some extent, but the nagging fact is the SBLs where they are sound so good!

Had a very nice chat with John (J.N.) last night & he was extremely helpful with various suggestions about improving other aspects of the system and he's clearly very pleased with his SL2s, which I'll go and listen to at some stage. However his room's very different to mine.

Because we've recently changed our floor from carpet to wood (with a considerable, and actually better change to the sound), and there was likely to be much repositioning of speakers, I temporarily removed the speaker spikes and stuck some lumps of "Blutack" under each one. I noticed Alastair & Andy rested the spikes of the SL2s on coins so last night I put the spikes back on the SBLs & did the same. With a slight but very definite deterioration in the sound quality! Ho hum...

I think the next logical step is to try the SL2s with a single NAP 300, followed if necessary by the Focals.

Watch this space!

Tony

You have a lovely room. I'd love a space like that - our front room is only about 17' by 11'6". Still, looking on the bright side, the stereo does work well in it!!

Getting back to your issues, I really would try a CDS3 with XPS2 or 555PS before a 300 and SL2s. I used to have a 552/300 and SL2s and now have a 202/200 and SBLs, and the current system does not sound that inferior. I kept the CDS3 as source, and that's what keeps my system sounding so good. I really wouldn't mess with the amps and speakers without at least hearing what a fundamental source upgrade will do for you.

Nigel

Hi Nigel.

We did try a 555 in my system, admittedly not positioned very well. It did sound very good, but not THAT good! I still preferred Vinyl, and SWMBO preferred the TAG on her favourite music! ...

quote:

I think the next logical step is to try the SL2s with a single NAP 300, followed if necessary by the Focals.

Tony,

Eben X-3's and Art Emotions would work perfectly there!

Regards

PB

Hello Tony,
Great room! May I add my vote to the comment about source improvement? And indeed amp. Which leads me up to suggesting as possible speakers the Kudos C20s (£2700) ... if that's not me sounding too much like a stuck record?!

If you like the fast and detailed presentation style of Naim speakers, the upper end of the Kudos range I would have thought could do well (I have C10s in a smaller room). Unlike the close-to-wall Naim speakers, they are quite happy standing in some space.

You may be interested in what Gary says about Kudos elsewhere - in comparison with Kans, Saras and SBLs...

I have listened to the whole Kudos range, thanks to a home dem by the Signals' crew. I have also heard the C10s firing down Alastair's longish dem room with 555,282,300, and there certainly was no lack of room-filling, highly musical, detailed sound!

(As an experiment, we did substitute my 82 - and the trad 'olive' signature sound was very obvious compared with the 282!)

Anyway, I hope you home-in on what you're after!

James

Hello James,
And thanks to yourself and Hungryhalibut (great forum handle my the way Nigel!) for your kind comments regarding my room.

We never got as far as considering the Kudos option but from what you post they might well fit the bill. They're not bad looking either so SWMBO might be mollified too.

I'm still inclined to listen to the SL2/NAP300 combination first though. Although my SBLs are not ideally positioned nevertheless they still sound great & I'd be happy if I can capture the main element of their sound but with some added depth and refinement, elements of which I heard in the SL2 demo.

Tony,
Depending on what furniture/fitting/feature you wanted to 'blend/tone' to, a pair of rosewood Kudos could look really great in that room

Have fun finding the right combo! The East Anglian crew are with you in spirit!

James

Hello Tony,

I would second James's recommendation to try the Kudos C10 or C20 especially looking at that lovely free space you have and considering they work really well away from rear walls.

My admiration for these speakers has as of yesterday taken a huge leap upwards (i already thought they were superb) since powering them with what i can only describe as the best bit of Naim kit i have ever bought, the 552 wow the C10's have doubled in size and speed, are even more engaging and detailed yet at the same time sound so much more relaxed. Combined with the 300 it makes one heck of a combo!

To make one more point, the 552 has just replaced a 252 and at the same time i downgraded my 555 head unit to a CDX2 whilst retaining the 555PS, and to top it off i got some FRAIM. This may seem strange however i can categorically say that the CDX2 based system simply blows away the one based on the 555/252. Not that the 555 is anything other than sublime, just that its full potential is obviously masked with the 252.

The reason i mention this is that you say how lacking in size and scale the SL2's were, and all i can say is that my diminutive Kudos Cardea's have doubled in size overnight just by adding a pre-amp and FRAIM, so money saved on the speakers (Kudos) could possibly be better spent elsewhere.

Regards, Gary.

I'm reviving this thread after spending a very illuminating few hours today listening to J.N.'s system; a chance to hear the SL2/NAP 300 combination, and with superior CD source.

I find it very difficult initially to get to grips with someone else's system in a completely different environment, but after listening to some familiar tracks it became clear the sound was exceptionally good, with all the things I love about the Naim sound plus better imaging, smoothness, detail and scale in comparison to mine.

Listening to John's Linn, albeit with a relatively humble cartridge, also sounded excellent. In most circumstances I do prefer vinyl to CD, but here the gap was considerably narrowed, further proof if it were needed that my CD source needs improving!

I came away rather chastened (and rather full up on lovely ham rolls and a naughty cream cake. Thanks for your hospitality and the new music you introduced me to John..), and wondering how realistic it would be to reproduce a similar sound in my larger room with SL2s less than ideally positioned.

As soon as I got home I listened to my system again, which actually sounded pretty darn good, thank the Lord!. So I was reassured to a certain extent.

After a long chat with Alastair the other day, the "Signals" gang will shortly be beating a path to my door again, armed with the SL2s and a NAP 300. Don't know what else besides, we need to have a chat about that. Although CD source improvement is most definitely on the cards I'm inclined to confine my listening at that session to mostly vinyl.

Watch this space!

Any chance that "M" might consider the Focal ten thirty sevens . . . ? Assuming, that is, that they turn out to be as good as claimed.




Alastair

Gosh, that was my first ever smilie. Maybe I'll just leave it at that.

quote:

Originally posted by Signals UK:
Any chance that "M" might consider the Focal ten thirty sevens . . . ? Assuming, that is, that they turn out to be as good as claimed.




Alastair

Gosh, that was my first ever smilie. Maybe I'll just leave it at that.

Maybe Alastair. By all means bring them along. But I've got a feeling they're going to be a bit too physically large?

Can't seem to find a photo of them anywhere.

1037 details (in Russian!) here Tony.

The dimensions are there.

John.

Or here

We are borrowing a pair next week and will certainly have them around. Chris at Focal claims amazing things for them on the end of a 52 + 300, so time will tell. But they are fairly chunky beasts, albeit ones that fit in the back of an A4 estate.


Alastair