Greetings all from Auckland , I recently purchased second hand some Royd Sorcerers with stands on trade me (NZ Ebay). They are an amazing testimony to the designer, wonderfully communicative,timbrally accurate and on the end of the CDS3/252/NAP 250.2 outshone my poor existing SL2s very easily.I wondered -- Why!!. The SL2s have a solid floor to sit on, have been leveled,the rear tweeter arms stay perpendicular when the speaker is pivoted back onto the rear suspension, the pips have the microscopic(?) points pointing up,bass drivers tightened (3.6nm) top cabinet is free- not touching bottom one and yet the sound coming from them is coarse, dull, a real drag. Have even tried them active (242,sc,250.2x2) and with a Nap 500 still no relief!!. However today as I was demonstrating how unfortunate I had been with them to a fellow naim enthusiast I decided (whats to lose anyway- you have to do this sort of thing here in nz) ) to see how tight the 3 allen head bolts securing the substantial alloy plates to both the top box and bass cabinet .I firstly checked the forum for any information regarding 'anything' to do with these bolts,but nothing appeared. 'Boldly' I hand checked these bolts bringing all the torques up to the tightest one I found then reassembled the speakers and then listened to a speaker I have 'never ever' heard before. My friend who runs active DBls who had also confirmed just how bad these speakers were sounding (it took 3 seconds) was as 'gob smacked' as me with their rebirth. The scale, clarity, basically everything has pole vaulted to another level- a stunningly large 'tweak' which has me very excited and 'peeved'at the same time. These $14k speakers which were moments away from the 'knackers yard',are now sounding amazing. I am 'peeved' about the process(2 years of frustration and soul searching) that I have had to go through,Is there anything else I should Know/do/try, to get these speakers to perform any better (new pips ,possibly a torque setting for these critical bolts ,how do other less adventurous people survive at this level? regards chris

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how do other less adventurous people survive at this level?

Well, thanks for asking...I leave all that to my dealer. He has installed the SL2's from new and again 2 years later when we redecorated the flat. They have always sounded wonderful and have just got even more wonderful over the years.

Bob

well done! however, the only 3 allen bolts i can see are on the tweeter suspension assembly unit where it bends to guide the tweeter into the top cabinet. are there the ones you are referring to?

enjoy
ken

Ken,you have to remove the bass driver cabinet flip it over and all will be revealed(they are located in recesses drilled in the thick black anodised plate) and are the same head size as the bass driver allen bolts (possibly a 10 minute proceedure at the most, same for the corresponding other plate, I have no info. regarding their torque settings- mine were not evenly tight, I evened them by hand feel to be no tighter than the tightest one (to be safe?)and they have never ever sounded so good cheers chris

3.6 Nm is the magic figure.

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how do other less adventurous people survive at this level?

Well I slum it (just had a great morning listening to G. Sokolov playing Bach Partita Nr. 2, A. Schiff playing Beethoven piano sonata Nr. 11, A. Harasiewicz playing Nocturne op.55 Nr 2 and Medtner with Hamelin playing some piano sonatas and some forgotten melodies)

I have to say though (room permitting) my dream system has to be a 500 series system possibly with a 500 and not the 300 ) terminated with SF Amati Anniversario

Cheers
Mark

Hi Chris,

I'm delighted for you at your outcome, as you say, you were considering putting $14k worth of speakers out to grass....but how did it happen that these bolts didn't have the correct torque settings in the first place?!

Best wishes,
Chris

quote:

I have to say though (room permitting) my dream system has to be a 500 series system possibly with a 500 and not the 300 ) terminated with SF Amati Anniversario

got the message Mark
...but I do know you prefer the 300

cheers,
Edouard

Chris ,If I had known to retorque these bolts we would not be having this discussion. They look simmilar to the bass driver bolts I torqued to 3.6nm six months ago,however as no one mentioned their importance I left well alone. Adam, am I to 'glean' from your comment that these are to be retorqued to 3.6nm 'officially'regards chris

I suppose the subtext of my question was 'you buy a $14k pair of speakers, you just want to hear wonderful music, it's up to your dealer (not you) to know all about the right torque settings for bolts etc.'

Glad it's sorted.

Regards, Chris

Maybe there should be an SL2 FAQ thread that details the info posted by Richard Dane, together with other information like this. Either this or updates to the user manual.

I just checked the user manual and there is nothing in there about max. torque only for the tweeter assemby that should be tightened as securely as possible.

I still find it difficult to believe that this cured all those problems. Still good for you that you found out before getting rid of them.

Regards
Mark

Mark, having endured these speakers for as long as I have up to now I think your comment is on the money. At first I thought it was the fact I hadnt run them in enough,then I thought it was the room ,(added nsubs),so then I tried to get rid of them(had them in a dealers for 4 months) ,then I decided to give it another go-- still the same old, then by a whim I got the sorcerers (finally some good sounds!!)but I just know I will need the extra scale ,and then maybe I need a 300?, then as luck may have it I tried a 500 still same old but more scale ,finally as result of this adjustment yesterday I now feel like I am getting what I PAID FOR!!!,and yes as astonished as I am about it I feel I have been very let down here regards chris (a bit like being finally found not guilty and let out of jail after 2 years)

Hi all ,have just set the torque on the bolts in question to 3.6nm (some were slightly tight and some slightly loose after my hand adjustment) Also retorqued bass drivers (again another quarter of a turn here after 6 months yikes thats scary!). I have noticed the thin pips dont have the pointy bits much anymore can these wear out with use maybe? Has anybody ever checked these internal bolts torque before?,if you havent you are in for one hell of a shock when you do,cheers chris

Chris,

Sounds like these are bolts Naim haven't anticipated going out of adjustment with any frequency. Glad it's sorted though and the speakers are performing as intended! Think I'll consider buying one of those RS torque wrenches now for my SBLs.

regards,

dave

Chris,

That is an interesting find. I have never been told by Naim the importance of checking that setting, or indeed that it needed checking. I am sure you will recognise that had we known, you would have be told by either John or myself. I am checking with Naim as to the correct set up of these plates and will be back in touch once I have heard from them.

Cheers,

Chris.

It is possible for the loading cabinet top plate bolts to come loose on both SBLs and DBLs, though the fixing method is different (countersunk bolts vs. recessed bolts on SL2)–in exactly the same way as the top plate of an old Sara or Kan stand could often loosen up.

Aha! Something new to play with the next time Peter's here

Well after taking out a spirit level and checking the tweeter arms, the left speaker tweeter arm was vertical but the right one was not and out by quite alot. It was tilted towards the ground in front of the speakers. Funny that I always had the balance towards the right and thought there was a problem with my balance knob on the 252 because of this.

Anyway after correcting this, the tweeter sits better in the top cabinet housing and is vertical, just like the left speaker in fact. The balance is much better now and I can re-centre it on the 252. Initial impression is that the sound is also better as a result even though the right cabinet is 1cm closer to the wall than the left cabinet at the level of the bottom cabinet. I'll try and sort this when the weather is not so hot and sweaty.

These were installed by someone that should really have known what he was doing. OK benefit of the doubt, maybe they have moved/have been moved since he installed them.

I still think that in this hobby, relying 100% on a dealer is not possible. We know our listening environment better than them and have the time to experiment. The people that don't rely 100% on a dealer so far (to my ears) have the best sound from their system.


Cheers
Mark

quote:

The people that fall into this category have the so far the best sound that I have heard.

Seconded Mark
cheers

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The people that don't rely 100% on a dealer so far (to my ears) have the best sound from their system.

carefully phrased mark, so hard to argue with.

however, in general, i have always found that a good dealer seems to always have somethig up his/her sleeve, based on experience. the sl2 is a case in point -- unless you realy know what you are doing, AND have the right tools (the right torgue wrench for example) i would leave this job to a dealer (assuming of course the dealer knows what he is doing also).

it may be idea for us sl2 owners to collect our experiences together somewhere. the thing about sl2s is that they sound much, much less forgiving of bad set up than i have experienced with other speakers -- and a badly setup sl2 is not worth listening to...

enjoy
ken