Hi

I have a current set up of

LP12/Aro/Armageggon/DV XX-2, 82/Hi, 180 & Rega Elas.

I'm planning to upgrade to:

252/SC, 300 & SL2 or maybe a 2nd hand set of NBL.

Question is where to upgrade 1st, as I don't want to do it all in one step. Is it just a case of upgrade at the top (ie pre-amp) and moving down eventually to the speakers or is the clear weakness in the current set up (eg 180 or Elas) that you would address first.

Thanks for any advice.

Hi Andy, welcome to the forum.

How about a bit of a curved ball?

Superline (with your Hicap), Supercap for the 82, a new cartridge, TKR or XV1s (and a service for the Linn if it needs it).

Then the next step could be the 252!

Best wishes, J

I really like what Julian suggested

Well that was a curve ball. I was thinking of doing the upgrades in 5K chunks, so the SC & superline would fit the bill from that perspective. Not having read much up about the superline what kind of improvements is that likely to give?

guys are raving about it. It's very versatile and the plugs are being played with to find optimum for personal choice. No other piece of equipment on the market does that. I'm sure they'll have a set of plugs for different cartridges in the future. Kind of like the S, K, N for stageline with some variations.

Your system is quite similar to mine.

I have LP12/Aro/Armageddon/DV17D3 72/Hi/250/SBLs. Previously I ran the same front end into 72/Hi/140/Elas. When I changed from 140 to 250 it was a big improvement. When I went from Elas to SBLs it was huge.

Where the Elas are great little speakers with lot's of energy and drive, SBLs are a real open window. I found they really opened up the sound and revealed much more of what was going on upstream. Although not in themselves big speakers there was more scale too.

Personally this is what I would do again before improving the front end, so that I had a really open window on the improvements wrought by the Superline, which would be my next move after that as Julian says, or any other changes upstream.

Mark

Mark

Are you advocating SBLs as an extra interim step, or suggesting that Andy goes straight to SL2s (or 2nd hand NBLs)on his current system?

Chris

Going straight to the SL2 in Andy's case would not be advisable. They do need a bit more grunt and detail than the 82/180 can provide.

The SBL's a re a sensible suggestion as the demand for SBL's would mean Andy could buy a pair now, sell them in a couple of years and recoupe his money.

You may even find he wats to stick with the SBL's and invest the savings further up the chain,

regards

PB

Many thanks for the advice everyone. So you really think the superline/hi + SC would be a better next step than say a 252/SC?

quote:

Many thanks for the advice everyone. So you really think the superline/hi + SC would be a better next step than say a 252/SC?

I would not say necessarily better for you; however, it would probably be my preference. You may prefer a 252/SC first. Of course that option is a LOT more expensive. You must do the dem and decide yourself.

Of paramount importance is the quality of your front end. Could you do with a better cartridge? Do you have a Cirkus bearing? Has your deck been recently serviced? Does your Linn sit on a good support? What is your current phonostage? If it is boards in the 82 you are going to have to get some other form of phonostage when you get the 252/SC because it does not facilitate the old boards system. You could you a Stageline but I would suggest you really ought to be using a better stage than that! A Prefix at a minimum.

Putting a nice revealing preamp like the 252/SC in front of a less than perfectly set up deck is likely to be less enjoyable.

I think you need the services of a good dealer who can demonstrate you all the options.

Best wishes, Julian

Thanks Julian. I tend to agree with you. Looks like a dealer visit is due. Reagrding the LP12, its been recently serviced and the cart is a fairly new (1year old) DV XX-2. You are quite right about the phono astage too, I just have the mc boards in the 82. Ok dealer visit is in order. Thanks for the invaluable advice.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Dolan:

Are you advocating SBLs as an extra interim step...?

To be honest Chris, yes, or perhaps something similar. It's just that I know the Elas well and, whilst they are great speakers and one of the great audio bargains, I don't think they are good enough to truly show the front end improvements being suggested. As PB says, they can be sold on for no loss when the time comes for SL2s.

I do support the front end first mantra generally, but I also think some degree of balance needs to be applied. When I moved from Goodmans Maxim 2s to the Elas that was a huge improvement too and really exposed the advantages of the NAIT 2 over the Rotel I was previously running.

If I had slavishly followed 'source first' I would still be running the Goodmans now!

Mark

Mark

I recently heard Elas sounding very good indeed on the end of LP12/Lingo 1/aro/karma 62/Hicap/140 but I think that you are probably right!

Chris

PB's suggestion regarding the SBL's makes a lot of sense (ensure they have the later bass units though) as you are unlikely to loose any money on them if you do decide to go for a pair of NBL's in the end. However, you'll need to substantially upgrade the amplification before you get to that point.

However, as for your first and most effective upgrade, it has to be the Superline. If you can manage a Supercap at the same time.... all well and good, as this makes the step up to a 252 easier for you in the future. As to where you deploy the Supercap initially within your system comes down to listening tests. You could put it with either the Superline or 82 and the Hi-Cap running the other component. Anyway, I suggest you listen to both options and use of other sources like a CD may sway you in the direction of use with the 82 for example.

As for the cartridge, leave well alone. While a TK Rua and XV1-s are much better, the money could be spent more effectively elsewhere at this stage.....ie SBL's or money in the kitty towards a 252? Anyway, you have quite a bit of life left with the XX2 I'm sure.

Superline loading with the XX2: I've been getting very good results with the 453R loading plug, but if this proves a little too forward with the Olive kit and possibly SBLs then try the 470R, which is just a little more relaxed sounding when used with this cartridge.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Peter

Thanks again for the very informative comments. Only question I still have here is that if you look specs of the TT/phono stage it would then be at a pretty high level, with the pre amp would be fairly ok level too leaving the power amp & speakers at a fair distance behind, at least if calculating based on price. ie the TT would be god knows, circa 5K new, phono stage + hi = 2.5K, the 82 & SC 5K with the poor old power amp at about a 1K and speakers at about 0.7K. I know the front end mantra and believe in it but just wondering if its not a bit out of balance.