I've always kinda followed the source first route myself ,having purchased a cds3 that replaced cdx2 to go with my 202 ,although this was partly because cds3 became available second hand. However this left me knowing that the 202 was now my weakest link. I've enjoyed the system that i have don't get me wrong, but now after hearing 282 with cdx (at brothers)i feel that maybe preamp first would have been the wiser first step. I had been putting of auditioning the 282 until my funds allowed the change, but my brother unfortunately(for me) is now on a naim journey as well and when he had on loan i could not resist(am i bad ) The end result of all this is me now having bought a 282 but also auditioned a 252( big mistake but i had to know) lucky for me when my wife heard the 252 she turned to me and said in a little Britain styley "i want that one" . So the 282 is going to be a stepping stone just now until funds permit. My point is though that i think the preamps maybe make a bigger difference to the sound as opposed to the cd players ,Am i mad or what?

... I think the preamps maybe make a bigger difference to the sound as opposed to the cd players.

To a large degree, it is a question of matching. The natural partner for a CDS3 is probably the 252, or even 552. For the CDX2, probably the 282, or possibly the 252.

I think you are right. The pre-amp has as large an effect on the replay performance as does the source component.

Look at what is going on with the Superline, which is arguably more part of the pre-amplification that the record turntable. In the old days phono EQ correction was managed with boards in the pre-amp.

Just a couple of pennies' worth. George

quote:

The pre-amp has as large an effect on the replay performance as does the source component.

I don't know why i was not expecting this ,Should have known really, Suppose its all good in the grander scheme of things ,I'm not as sure as i was that there is logical partners for whatever players, guess its up to the individual to try for themselves ,I did not really explore all options myself but do not regret this ,Just that maybe others should try what i did not.

Yes indeed the pre-amp is a key player as a source component, in fact i have for the last couple of weeks been looking at the Hi-cap that resides on one of my FRAIM shelves and thinking how much better it would be if it were a Supercap, my 282 thinks so also, and it would be the right size!!

With a CDS3/555PS as source i'm sure the Hi-cap is making the 282 a bottleneck, and the Supercap would widen the neck so to speak. When i had my 552/300 last year i had it partnered with a CDX2/555PS and never did it sound anything less than enthralling and not a bit outclassed, even though the CDS3 was better it goes to show what magic the pre can do.

Think i better not talk myself into this one cos it might cost me some money, the system is sounding just fine now as it is .

Gary.

I think the "source first" principle, whilst still valid, is no longer quite as all important as it once was. The whole concept seemed to originate when the Linn LP12 was introduced and people discovered that systems incorporating it as the source sounded far superior to anything else. The point being that the LP12 was, and remains, an excellent and very musical turntable, whilst the alternatives at the time were dire in musical terms. This lead to the dogma of "spend 90% of your budget on a turntable, ie the Linn, and 10% on amp and speakers". This was sound advice at the time, as a superior musical result could be obtained merely by incorporating an LP12 into a system, even if the amp and speakers were really rock bottom budget affairs. However, things have now moved on quite a bit, and instead of just one excellent and very expensive turntable there are now very many excellent turnatbles and CD players at a whole range of prices. It is now easy to find a very musical source at a reasonable price, meaning that more money can be allocated to amp and speakers. As long as you have a good source you may well find that preferable results can be obtained by buying a better pre-amp, power amp or speakers, rather than upgrading the source. Taken to extremes, would you rather listen to a Naim CDS3 into a £150 Deonon amp and a pair of Wharfedale Diamonds (roughly the equivalent of an early Linn fronted and budget concious system), or a CD5x into a 122x/150x and Allaes?

Peter

Gary,

When I had an 82/Hicap I found that the move to a Supercap was not a night-and-day leap forwards, especially considering the money involved. Changing from the 82 to a 252 was a definite improvement in musicality and presentation. However, whether it warrants the expense is of course subjective. If I were you I would stick with what you've got permenently or wait until you can afford to get both the Supercap and 252 together for a big leap forwards.

Peter

Thanks Peter,

Strangely enough on the way to my 552/300 system of old i did have a 252 which actually replaced an 82, however i consider that i must have had an under performing 252 as i never really liked it as much as i should have. Changing to the 552 really made me realise what i was missing. Others however seem to love the 252 and myself included upon hearing various demo units at dealers and shows, just not mine. The 282 i now own i feel is one of the best i have heard which would make me hesitate in changing it.

Like everything, the only way to tell would be to slot an S'cap in and see.....

Gary.

i recall some discussions on the 552 that almost suggested that this may be a better upgrade that "source first" dictated upgrades would indicate. try a quick search on 552.

enjoy
ken

quote:

Originally posted by pjl:
I think the "source first" principle, whilst still valid, is no longer quite as all important as it once was.

Agreed. I never really got it in the first place.

Source first principle? What does that actually mean? And is that meaning shared by many, or does it mean different things to different people?

System synergy, balance, an eye on a future upgrade path - these are concepts I can clearly understand, but 'source first' is a totally meaningless cliché in my world.

Gary,

Although I found the 252 a major improvement on the 82/Hicap, I have to say that I was never 100% convinced by it or my CDS3/XPS2. I loved the analogue-like refinement and smoothness, but I always had a slightly niggling feeling that something wasn't quite right. In fact exactly as you commented, I felt I should be liking it more than I did. I felt that the combination never really seemed to "let it's hair down". It often seemed to be holding back slightly and never really let go. I have not heard the CDS3/555PS combination but from what I've read I suspect that this may address these "problems". I have now had to downsize to a CD5i Mk11/Nait5i Mk11/ n-Sats due to personal circumstances. This system, although theoretically far inferior to my previous set-up, "boogies" like that one never did, and sounds unbelievably musical. In fact I'm genuinely shocked at how good it sounds. Of course, it doesn't have the authority/power/scale of the bigger set-up, but it is every bit as enjoyable musically. Make of this what you will!

Ken,

Yes, I've seen reports that systems incorporating the 552 can sound far more musical than supposedly otherwise superior systems.

Regards,

Peter

My $50 JVC DVD player sounds shockingly good playing CDs through my Nait*. In this case, I figure it has to be the amp or pre-amp giving me that goodness.

Cheers,
Bruce

*Not as good, however, as my CD5X...thankfully!

Jaseamondo

I changed my capped CD5 for a CDS2/XPS2 and it was significantly better....if I had to downgrade my system I would keep the CDS2/XPS2 and go down to a 5i (from my 52/250 combo).....source first for me still.

Cheers

Jim

Jaseamondo,

What are you using with your 282? Is it a Hicap2 or a Supercap2?

I have a 282 myself and see the SC2 as the next purchase as many on the forum claim this is really substantial, and others have prefered the 282+SC2 to the 252+SC2.

Regards

Jon

quote:

What are you using with your 282? Is it a Hicap2 or a Supercap2?

just the hicap2 at the moment Jon, have had a demo of the supercap2 though and as you say this is my next logical step, i was impressed how it tightened up the bottom end and seemed to open up the sound somewhat, I'm not that good at explaining what i hear to be honest i feel a bit daft trying to ,others on the forum explain the sound thing better than i ever could. I am enjoying the 282 immensely at the moment having only just changed from the 202, I'm in no hurry for the supercap or 252 ,as i said in my first post above this is where i'm heading, at a pace i can afford i should add ps I am i no doubt that you will love what the supercap does when you try it for yourself, let us know your thoughts when you do, you'll be better at this than me no doubt

Jase