Hi ROTF, I think hifi and subjectiveness go hand in hand. Otherwise we would all own the same equipment! Ive not really heard a CD555 so i cant really comment but i only joined this thread to wait for my new superline to warm up (delivered this afternoon) and having just spent the last 2 hours annoying the neighbours...oh boy oh boy. THIS has got to be the best naim upgrade i have ever done. I can only reiterate what i said earlier, my avid walks, nay STOMPS, all over my CDSII/555PS combo. Everytime ive heard an LP12 i cant help but reach for some shag and a pipe, but again, as i said before, ive yet to hear an LP12 at its utmost best.

quote:

Originally posted by munch:
I have only heard Julians 52 and Supercaped Superline with a brand new Cartridge.
It was good but not as good as it is now.

I did get to hear my LP12 Ittock Klyde through the Superline Supercap and 52 though.While Dr Peter was working on Julians LP12 and it was bloody fantastic.
This weekend i am looking forward to hearing a few AROs and cartridges through Superlines and a nice Active 500 SL2 and n/sub system
Munch

Have you not heard Big H47's ?

Anyway, it sounds like you are making up for it now

Just to add my thoughts for Anylist: Set-up is key with an LP12 so by all means have a listen to a few of the competitors but please hear a modern LP12 before you decide what to do with your's.

Kind regards,

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
The Avid I heard had an ARO - just not for me I guess. Thought the ARO sounded a lot better on the LP12.

I agree.
I think that the Volvere is served a lot better by a different arm than the ARO.

I've herad the Volvere sounding lovely with a different arm.

But the direct comparison to the LP12 ( even with a Linn arm, using the same cartridge/system ), my preference was for the Sondek.

It is subjective. Cuz, my friend thought the Volvere trounced the Sondek.

Makes us wonder about what we all listen for, eh?

quote:

Originally posted by clanky:
ive yet to hear an LP12 at its utmost best.

Fair enough, you made your decision and you will be happy with your Superline for sure.

I think it just makes sense to suggest that a new LP12 is auditioned rather than ignored in this research. I would suggest that the improvements over your

quote:

shag and a pipe,

inducing old lady, are nothing short of vast when correctly set up. The upgrades could then be applied to the existing deck if they had been required.

Sure, there are some very serious competitors out there - I know as I have listened to quite a few, but for me there is still little to rival a well set up LP12. I just wish I could mount an ARO on a Keel.

quote:

But the direct comparison to the LP12 ( even with a Linn arm, using the same cartridge/system ), my preference was for the Sondek.

It is subjective. Cuz, my friend thought the Volvere trounced the Sondek.

Makes us wonder about what we all listen for, eh?

Originally posted by Kuma

Lots of things Kuma, but set-up sure helps!

Kind regards,

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by clanky:
Hi ROTF, I think hifi and subjectiveness go hand in hand. Otherwise we would all own the same equipment! Ive not really heard a CD555 so i cant really comment but i only joined this thread to wait for my new superline to warm up (delivered this afternoon) and having just spent the last 2 hours annoying the neighbours...oh boy oh boy. THIS has got to be the best naim upgrade i have ever done. I can only reiterate what i said earlier, my avid walks, nay STOMPS, all over my CDSII/555PS combo. Everytime ive heard an LP12 i cant help but reach for some shag and a pipe, but again, as i said before, ive yet to hear an LP12 at its utmost best.

clanky - you're getting good results and enjoying the music, which is as it should be.

ATB Rotf

quote:

Originally posted by Cymbiosis:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by munch:
I have only heard Julians 52 and Supercaped Superline with a brand new Cartridge.
It was good but not as good as it is now.

I did get to hear my LP12 Ittock Klyde through the Superline Supercap and 52 though.While Dr Peter was working on Julians LP12 and it was bloody fantastic.
This weekend i am looking forward to hearing a few AROs and cartridges through Superlines and a nice Active 500 SL2 and n/sub system
Munch

Have you not heard Big H47's ?

Hi Peter,
He rang me an hour ago about stuff and going over.
It was only Julian who went over last weekend to spend the day sorting his SBLs and system out.
I will get over there in the next month or so i hope.
I have got to do a trip up to you before then
though.
Stuart.

Thanks ROTF, never a truer word said! Unfortunately, i'm now developing a serious vinyl addiction on fleabay much to the chagrin of my postie.
Cymbiosis: your comments regarding 'a well setup LP12' are also very true and one of the other reasons for me straying away from the Linn camp. Im probably of the plug and play generation where the thought of constantly fidding with bits in order to acheive what might be better drove me insane. Every time i played a record i was thinking 'i wonder if the springs are still set up right' and 'oh, did i nudge it a little too hard there...' With the Avid, after the initial setup, it really is forget and enjoy.

quote:

Originally posted by Cymbiosis:
Lots of things Kuma, but set-up sure helps!

Sure Peter.

But I don't think even the best-est LP12 will sound like a Volvere and vice versa.

Frankly, I am not sure if I want a Sondek devoid of its character.

quote:

I just wish I could mount an ARO on a Keel.

Hi Peter

What makes you think that an Aro mounted on a Keel would improve the performance? The uni-pivot design of the Aro would not necessarily benefit or even worse it might have much the same effect as I believe Kuma & I have discovered on high mass designs such as the Avid. It's all a little academic really as I think we both know there will never be a Keel for the Aro.

I agree with you about the importance of setup, but I don’t think that once properly setup that they are quite as fragile as some have said, but over the longer term I can see why others might prefer a turntable solution that was a little more plug & play I have often thought at what point does a Linn’s performance dip below that of other designs as it is in-between services.

Warmest regards

Norman
Partner - UHES

Kuma - some people would consider the LP12 'character' its achilles heel.

Analyst, i feel that this thread has moved somewhat from your original intention. I suspect, like you, i was entirely happy with my cd setup and just wanted a turntable to compliment my cd side ie just play the occasional record that doesnt exist on CD. Unfortunately, (or fortunately depending on your point of view) my turntable has surpassed all my expectations and has now become my first choice for playback. With certain comments regarding the AVID (Munch??) I feel that it needs defending. Choose with your ears and enjoy.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:
Sure Peter.

But I don't think even the best-est LP12 will sound like a Volvere and vice versa.

Frankly, I am not sure if I want a Sondek devoid of its character.

Absolutely Kuma, on both points.

quote:

Originally posted by clanky:

Choose with your ears and enjoy.

Yes that's the point I was making above - don't discount any of the options

quote:

Originally posted by Rodborough:

quote:

I just wish I could mount an ARO on a Keel.

Hi Peter

What makes you think that an Aro mounted on a Keel would improve the performance? The uni-pivot design of the Aro would not necessarily benefit or even worse it might have much the same effect as I believe Kuma & I have discovered on high mass designs such as the Avid.

Norman
Partner - UHES

Norman, precisely because and to use your terms "not necessarily benefit and might". I would like to find out, for better or perhaps for worse. Wouldn't you like to know, given how many positives you know the Keel brings to the party when partnered with the Linn arms?

FYI. I to have been left pretty unimpressed by the Aro on some high mass designs as well so we are in agreement.

It is in my nature to set-up, experiment with and try and extract the very maximum from any product I get my hands on. Take the Superline cartridge loading for example. The 500R supplied as standard is very good, but on a Sondek with an Akiva, in my opinion the 560R special is better. Granted, this may not be true for other turntables though. Likewise, the 470R special is better with the Dynavector TK Rua and XV1-s than the standard 500R. Most recently, having tested and posted here my findings on many values with the Dynavectors and Linns. I was visiting Jon Honeyball last week and we found that just a small change in value from 470R to a 453R plug Steve Sells had kindly sent me the day before for evaluation, was better still with the XV1-s - considerably better! Surely, this is what we are all about? Getting the very best performance from all our systems and thus enjoying the music even more and feeding back this information for the benefit of others.

Regarding, "plug and play turntables" you really should hear the new Well Tempered Amadeus. It really sounds very good! - So, returning to Analist's original post..... here's another one to consider!

Kindest regards,

Peter

P.S. I will be receiving some more resistive loading plugs shortly for test. Having found a 430R was not in the class of a 453R with the XV1-s for want of a better expression (while typing and watching the football! ) Steve is kindly sending me a value of circa 440R to put up against the 453R. - I'll let you know how I get on.

Peter -

Interesting you mention the Amadeus - not heard one yet, but intending to. What class of performance (keeping it generic - as I know specifics are difficult) would you put it in?

Regards

Richard

quote:

Originally posted by clanky:
Kuma - some people would consider the LP12 'character' its achilles heel.

That's right.

Therefore, there are other 'table options other than a Sondek.

agreed the xerxes 10 is a great turntable, its presentation is more realistic than the lp12.

andy

quote:

Originally posted by andyvk:
agreed the xerxes 10 is a great turntable, its presentation is more realistic than the lp12.

andy

Thats only IYO

quote:

Originally posted by Analyst:
After years of gradual upgrading, I have the following system CDS2/hiline/XPS, 52/SC/250, KEF reference 3/2s on Isoblue. I am very happy with the CD side of the system, and can't see myself making any changes for some time.

I also have a large record collection, and have a trusty LP12 (pre cirkus), Ittok and DV20. I am looking to upgrade significantly and have the option of Naiming the Linn or looking elsewhere (Avid, Michell). I am wondering if forum users have experience of these turntables with Olive or whether Olive users always stayed loyal to the LP12. My budget is pretty flexible, but I would be considering a full Naim set so this would make a Volvere/Orbe within reach.

Any advice greatly appreciated!

No reason an LP12 can't grow with your system, though it's probably a bit behind your digital replay at this point.

Most would probably recommend the Cirkus upgrade first, though (having bought a '97-spec LP12 and fitted it with a new-old-stock pre-Cirkus bearing, for a while) you probably will get more immediate utility out of an Armageddon (NAPSA in olive garb, NAPSA2 in black) straightaway.

Make sure, too, that you get your deck vetted by a pro–suspension springs, motor, armcable all might need a bit of TLC or replacement. Once these are sorted, you can consider a better arm and/or cartridge.

Lastly–don't get too hung up on olive cosmetic, as there are plenty of mix-and-match systems out there with a bit of both (or all three).

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
IMHO, a Rega P3-24 is more musical than a Volvere. Especially if you ask Max Townshend to tweak the P3-24 then it really ROCKs.

ROTF, can you give any more info on this? I have a P3-24 in a second system and it is, indeed, surprisingly good.

quote:

Originally posted by rupert bear:

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
IMHO, a Rega P3-24 is more musical than a Volvere. Especially if you ask Max Townshend to tweak the P3-24 then it really ROCKs.

ROTF, can you give any more info on this? I have a P3-24 in a second system and it is, indeed, surprisingly good.

Yes it costs around £7k. The new Townshend Rock 5


The motor, sub-platter and arm bearings are all from the Rega P3-24 the rest is pure Max. Max would not tweak a customer's P3-24 (at least I don't think he does that), but the Rock V uses some essential parts of that very TT. I hope I'm not misquoting, but I think the philosophy is that the importance of the motor is overplayed and the motor used by Rega is ideal for the job provided its power supply is a good one; there is no need for an exotic motor unit, same goes for the sub-platter. Max is not a fan of Unipivot arms and prefers the Rega pivot design, but his Excalibur arm is extraordinary in its use of the trough. Arm bearings are not the key problem with designing an arm, it is the ability of the arm to keep the cartridge in place and not let it vibrate.




IMHO, Max's rock is one of the very best TTs around. Heard a couple of Rocks and always liked them. It does need some expertise to get the suspension right though. I think it needs pumping.

You can read all the details on Max's web site.

However despite my praise for the Rock, I prefer the simplicity from a user perspective of the LP12. When it comes to simply playing records for musical enjoyment, the LP12 is as good as any.

Sorry Rupert, if I misled you = I should have put a smiley after tweak ()

ATB Rotf