Well I've just installed the 552 in my system ... absolutely fantastic. My 250.2 has done an admirable job driving my NBL's, but thoughts wonder seriously to moving up the amplifier ladder in the next year.

I've had short shop dems of both the 300 and 500 in the past and recollect that they are 'voiced' very differently. I'll be seeking an ex-dem 500 or a new 300, is it just a matter of preference on the voicing or does the 500 bring a whole lot more to the system. Maybe a dumb question given the 500 is nearly 3x the price, but I would value the comments of those who have the experience.

Regards

Allen

Hi Allen

Have recently done those steps. Replaced 52 with 552, first paired with olive 250, then got a 300 -quite an impovement-, then replaced SBLs with DBLs then got a 500.
Personally I would not want to go back to 300. The 500 brings a lot more control with DBLs what the 300 leaves undefined and blurry. My guess is this will be similar with NBLs. Nevertheless a 300 is a damn good amp and pairs very harmoniously with the 552.

Part if the game is also to move up the ladder step by step. On the other hand you'll find 500s every so often s/h for reasonable pricetags, so the differnce between a new 300 and a s/h500 shouldnt be that huge.

Neither is wrong, both a great amps, I am sure youll enjoy either one.

Franz

Allen,

Both amp are fantastic, the choice of 300 or 500 is depending a lot of the speakers/room equation. I heard the NBL with 250.2, 300 and 500, I think the minimum for the NBL is the 250.2, and the best result is with the 500. In my case I won't go for the 500, as the system, with the Amati's in my room, sounds SO perfect as it is, even Geoff told me not to touch anything, "you just don't need a 500" which is fine with me as I never fancied one, I'm a 300 fan
At any rate the 300 is a fantastic value per money, no question about that.

Regards,
Edouard

quote:

even Geoff told me not to touch anything, "you just don't need a 500"

.....Yes even I did

Edouard is right that at this level system synergy is more a factor. Both the 300 and the 500 will drive most speaker loads with excellent control and delivery. I had hard to drve Totem Mani 2's for quite a while and found the 500 gave a greater sense of command and was faster responding to transients though the 300 was quite capable of driving those speakers.

Based on this I would hazard a guess that NBL's would also be better presented by a 500.

As to tonal signature the 300 is beautifully musical. To my ears so also is the 500 though I will admit it has a sightly drier character. The bass delivery of the 500 is as resolved and controlled but stronger than the 300 in a way that I like very much.

I love thse traits in the 500 with my current Kharma speakers and would not return to a 300.....however you owe it to yourself to try and audition the 300 at home to see how your room setup likes it before ruling it out in favor of a 500. A 500 demo would also be a good idea if you can swing it, especially if you are prepared to consider a 2nd hand 500 (I did and have never regretted it ).

Ultimately the extra sense of ease and control and the subtlety with which ths is done by the 500 is what differentiates it from the 300 .... for me.

regards
Geoff

Thanks Guys for your valued opinions. Very, very much appreciated.

I'd very much like to do the amp change in one step, the difficulty lies in the demos. These amps are heavy as ..... so shipping for home demo kind of pushes you down an avenue of taccid acceptance because of all the hassle and expense, (that's even before your dealer agrees to it!). How did you guys come to choosing (given that at least two of you guys, as far as I can see, are outside the mainland, like me)?

The difficulty with dealer / shop demos is that, as far as I know, none have NBL's, and not many have DBL's. Would DBL's be a fair (albeit much better presumably) substitute for NBL's, the design is so different, but then again, I have never heard DBL's. Do they have similar characteristics to NBL's (I believe they share certain speaker drive units)?

The thing that draws me to the 500 is that this was designed and first hit the market when the NBL's were in their heyday. Although the NBL's were originally designed as active firstly, I can recollect people saying back then that the 500 possessed the level of control across the driver range that makes it a viable alternative to activation.

Undoubtedly, the 300 is a fantastic amplifier, but all of you consider that the 500 will control the NBL's that much better (to be expected really).

Of course, the room, loudspeaker and system synergy is hugely important at this level, but did any of you find that the kind of music listened to (even if widely varied) swayed you to a 300 or 500?

Regards

Allen

Greetings Allen,

I moved from a 300 to a 500 on my SL2s, and some visitors have commented that it's one of the biggest upgrades they've heard here.

Yes of course, the 500 has a wonderful sense of ease and latent controlled power, but for me it's the 500s mid-range that is just so beautifully beguiling.

I could have gone active with another 300 for about the same price, but I just love the voicing of the 500. It's very understated in a way, possessing great subtlety.

A friend uses a 500 on his NBLs to great effect (where are ya Mike?) and may well contribute here.

John.

quote:

Originally posted by J.N.:
I moved from a 300 to a 500 on my SL2s, and some visitors have commented that it's one of the biggest upgrades they've heard here.

There can be such unintended cruelty in a casual observation.

I have just ordered a NAP 300 (along with a 555PS) to go with my SL2s (and N-Sub). No modest system but probably the sensible limit of my Naim aspirations and the achievement of a dream.
Given the choice between a new NAP 300 and a second hand 500 of recent manufacture - I'd go for the 500. With NBLs - I think I'd pay quite a premium to get the 500 into the system.

My past experience (briefly) of both http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4801938...392916317#8392916317.

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
I have just ordered a NAP 300 (along with a 555PS) to go with my SL2s (and N-Sub).

How much did that set you back Adam?

5 years to life moderating the forum.

No time off for good behaviour - so I won't.

Good stuff.

Let us know how you get on when they arrive!


P

That I will.

I also (hope) I have got an Optomax projector coming as well - should help avoid the occasional temptation of the television down here.

I call the 500 the 'incredible disappearing amplifier'. Since its arrival it has got on with its job and I honestly never notice it - its that good.

quote:

How did you guys come to choosing (given that at least two of you guys, as far as I can see, are outside the mainland, like me)?

Aleen,


Actually three of us don't live on the main land
But I know that almost everyone who posted here didn't have a home demo but have been very familiar with the 500 before purchasing it.

In my case I will sum it up this way:

1- I have listened at length so many times and for hours if not days to the 500 at the dealer and at friends and never fancied having one.
...listening to the 552 made me want to grab one ASAP!!!

2- I don't like big bulky gears and I think the NAP 500 far exceeded any sensible budget, when the 300 is giving me already all the magic I need for much less.

3- My SF Amatis speakers are not a very hard load and my guess was that the 300 would drive them very well and would be a good match when it comes to the voicing character. Moreover I have a lively room which doesn't eat the sound

4- I couldn't go wrong anyway, as I have friends who own the Amati's Anniversario driven with 300 or 500 with the same system I have, result is fantastic with both amps!

5- Actually the speakers came last and my problem was to succeed this last upgrade for the best! I believe that amp home demo is far less important than speaker home demo, never the less if you can home demo everything it's always better and safer.

At least it shouldn't be too much of a problem for you to listen to 500/NBL and 300/NBL at some hifi buddies in UK, I know where I would go myself if I had to listen to those options

Good luck,
Edouard

quote:

I have just ordered a NAP 300 (along with a 555PS

Congratulations Adam, you know you got a dream system
Looks like you are all set up to enjoy life in the best way in Tournon d'Agenais!
BTW if you want to listen to the Goddess you're welcome

Regards,
Edouard

Allen we are all biased by our individual experiences. There is a good reason often for leaving well alone if you have all the things you want in 'your' sound already. Edouard for example has that with the 300 and I can hear why.

Of course you can never be sure unles you do an extended demo at home whether you could gain some more improvement by making further upgades...but in these circumstances often there is no real desire to actually mess with things and try.

I personally was pushed forward by my hard to drive speakers and - because home demos were not always feasible, especially 'off shore' as you put it - contented myself with the facts that Naim new what they were doing and I was buying 2nd hand. In fact all my amps 250.2, 300 and 500 have been 2nd hand.

I new I needed more 'ompf' than a 250.2 could give me so the 300 was really bought 'on spec' (I had an abortive home demo of sorts which did no good whatosever) and was very impressed with what happened to my speakers when they came under the sway of the 300, showing significant extra control together with far superior clarity. When a while later I had a opportunity to pick up a 2nd hand 500 of excellent provenece, it was too good to refuse and from my personal experience could only be a step for the better.

I was not completely blind going in because I had heard a couple of 500 based systems and also 300 based ones in other peoples homes. This had showm me the Naim amp grading really was correct.

The 300 is an gorgeous amp but Naim aren't daft.....the 500 can bring a level of control, speed and subtlety beyond the 300.

regards
Geoff

Allen

At the end of the day with a 300 you may not stop wonder what a 500 would furhter add. At least in the context of DBLs and my homeenvironment the 500 improved not insignificantly control agility and ease over the 300. I got my 500 s/h having listend to it before with DBLs and therfore new what to expect. With the trade-in from the 300 the step was not extrodinary hard.

Unfortunately I cant comment much on NBLs since I never listened to them at length. My guess is they will respond to a 500 quite similar as DBLs do. So if funds are available and a decent s/h 500 is around the corner -grabb it- for certain you wont regret it.

good luck

franz

quote:

Naim aren't daft

Very well put, I thought, Geoff...

Thanks once again to everyone in offering their comments.

It's very interesting to read the comments here and from the past (especially Adam's link to the '300' post), there are some fairly polarised opinions on this (ain't hi-fi great!).

Given my lack of opportunity to audition every combination, I like Geoff, tend to place trust in Naim's hierarchy,there has to be a good reason why the 500 is much more expensive than the 300.

Having said that, I wonder if I have my take on this correct, it's why I asked whether peoples musical preferences had an influence on choosing say, a 300 over the 500. Other than the big leap in price, (which I feel can be mitigated when comparing an ex-dem 500 to a new 300), my re-collection of the short dems of the 300 / 500 was a case of 'refinement'. The 300 seemed more refined (much like comparing a 252 to the 552, the 252 being the more 'refined') which could be to people's liking if they are into their classics, chorals, etc. (not me by the way). Is the 300 more benign? Some comments suggest the 500 'disappears' which was definately not my recollection of the 500, maybe this is so once you live with the amp and get used to it. Again, my re-collection was the 300 does 'all the right things', the 500 does seem to get a hold of the music and present it in it's 'own way' (again, very similar to the 552 over the 252).

I do not believe the NBL's are a difficult speaker to drive, but I have always felt they have a lot more to give than the last 4 years driven by the 250.2. That's fine, I bought the NBL's knowing that one day I would upgrade the amplifier. The 552 has been a revelation, the 'life' in the music has gone up several notches and I am nowhere near fully burnt-in.


Regards

Allen

quote:

comparing a 252 to the 552, the 252 being the more 'refined'

The 552 is the most refined and musical preamp I have ever heard!
You must have made a mistake typing

Regards,
Edouard

quote:

Originally posted by Edouard:
Congratulations Adam, you know you got a dream system.
Looks like you are all set up to enjoy life in the best way in Tournon d'Agenais!
BTW if you want to listen to the Goddess you're welcome.
Regards,
Edouard

A kind offer - which I will keep in mind.

It is difficult to point at what makes a system special for you. In my case (so far) the magic item has been the 552. I can conceive many systems from Naim that would satisfy me - provided they sensibly included this preamplifier.

The CDS3 was the first "must have" CD player I had experienced and the NAP 300 has often beguiled me.
Tedious to repeat but I first 'got' the 552 when being played the new N-Sats by a colleague - on the end of a CDX2/XPS2, 552 and NAP 300. A silly system I will soon (just a bit of fun) be able to recreate for myself - albeit with the CDS3.