I just purchased a system consisting of 102/napsc/180/hicap/cd5/hicap and I am certainly satisfied. In reading this forum I have come across alot of comments that lead me to believe that I truly need to get to 82 in place of the 102 to truly hear what the rest of my system is capable of. And what about the 250 instead of 180? I will never be able to get the ultimate, but I don't want to make a big investment and be just one minor step short of something significant. Looking for advice from experienced Naimees.

Jef

There isn't some "light" that you see when you'll upgrade your 180 to a 250, or your 102 to 82 (although the later is bigger and makes more (musical) sense). It does become better and sounds much more "varied" and true to each recording, more coherent etc.

Before any upgrade I would make sure the whole system is set up correctly, and this means electricity and stand/rack. I guess you could find several people's opinion on the later :-)

One point, what is your HiCap connected to, the source or the pre-amp ? I would first try to put the hicap on the pre and get a cheap s/h p/s for the cd5, this is a sure bet.

Omer

I worked out that a dream full Naim/Lp12/CDS2 with active 500's DBLs and lots of supercaps was near £50,000.
It's true you probably won't get the ultimate.
The good bit is 90% of the musical enjoyment for 10% of this price.
Cheers
Richard

Let your system get fully warmed up.
Listen.
Enjoy.
When you know your system, if you think something's missing, buy a good turnatble, arm,cartridge and lots of used records.
If something is still missing, identify it, and look for it.
Not even the 52 does real live music in your living room.

Regards.

Phil

I actually have two hicaps, one to the 102 and one to the cd5.

So far it sounds like I'm not missing all that much...at least in the line of going from a 102 to an 82. And as I stated earlier, I am certainly satisfied with the sound as it sits, but you always wonder if I just had......

Jeff

Jeff,

quote:

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I am certainly satisfied with the sound as it sits, but you always wonder if I just had......

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Don't let the forum 'spoil' your happiness with your system!

This great Naim forum is like other brand forums in some aspects, always go for the most expensive gear of the brand. The more money you throw at your system the better it gets seems to be the obligatory thought sometimes. This is not always true. This is no criticism on the forum as such BTW. However, in this mode your audio-hobby will easily become an endless pursuit for more expensive gear.

My Naim dealer gave me an interesting answer when I asked about adding an XPS to my CDX. He said "yes it's an improvement but I would only consider one if you have the cash lying around and you don't have a clue what to do with it. Otherwise I would buy A LOT of CD's for that money. They will give you much more fun!" I'm not saying he's absolutely right but his answer sure did make me think... (no this dealer doesn't sell CD's )

I agree with Omer that you should get the most out of your system as it is first. Good speaker positioning, a good rack, proper mains supply (!) etc.

Have fun!

Richard

I think that it is often about your personal threshold at which you become happy with your system. That I think being indicated by wanting to listen to music and not Hi-Fi. I initially chased an ideal sound and felt that I needed to continue to spend until I had the best of the Naim range. Then with the help of an excellent dealer I arrived at a system that was above my personal threshold without getting anywhere near the top items, the dealers advice was invaluable.

Look for your personal threshold - it will be different to other peoples. Better is usually better but not always necessary.

Brendan - CDI, 82, SCap, 250. Arc, Mana, dedicated mains supply.

The particular item that did the trick for me was the supercap.

i believe i am not alone in saying that naim equipment has made me discover music that i would never otherwise have bothered to listen to -- in my case -- classical music. i now have a reasonably healthy but humble collection of mostly hyperion cd's.

however, may i play devils advocate on the advice to buymore cd's instead of, for example, going for a particular upgrade, for example, xps for cdx. i find, even with my humble collection of cd's, that i dont get to play them often enough -- there are just too many and there are other things to do in life than sit and listen to records. what i do thoroughly enjoy is the feeling of "discovering" more music on my existing cd's whenver i perform a successful upgrade. makes you sleep very late going through your collection. i am sure you all recall going through this kind of experience.

so the question might well be -- is it better to spend more money discovering more music on existing records, or to spend money on more records whose music you will not fully exploit with your system? we all have different answers i believe -- but its definitely not as obvious as "better to buy more records"...

enjoy....

ken

Ken Chakahwata said:

quote:

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is it better to spend more money discovering more music on existing records, or to spend money on more records whose music you will not fully exploit with your system?

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I think it is fair to generalise that a music fan is one whose music collection is worth more than his system. Conversely, you have the classic audiophool. Which one are you?

James

Resistance is Futile

Ken wrote:

quote:

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but its definitely not as obvious as "better to buy more records"...

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That was not what I intended to say Ken. I mentioned this dealers opinion because I think it's quite remarkable for somebody that makes his living by selling Naim gear. It isn't a general "true or false" statement either. Just a different perspective in the context that I tried to describe to the common paradigm 'spend more on your system to enjoy music more' that, reading your post, is your experience too. Which is no critism BTW.

Richard

Jeff,

I have found that audio satisfaction is not necessarily related to the amount of money expended but more an issue of:

1. State of mind

2. System synergy

I have tended to make big leaps in my system at widely spaced intervals. As an example my first real system of Systemdek IIX, Nait 1, Kan 1 (all second-hand or ex-demo) delivered the musical goods and kept me satisfied for 4 years until I upgraded to an Ariston RD110SL turntable. The system remained unchanged for a further 8 years (apart from the addition of a cheap CD player) and delivered years of musical enjoyment. Music was my focus not the system because it worked as a synergistic combination and because I had more time to listen to music in a peaceful state of mind than at any time before or since.

Last year I threw several thousand pounds at my system and whilst undoubtedly a huge improvement (tighter, faster, cleaner etc) in hi-fi terms - somehow I became a bit discontented with the result and began to question whether I hadn't enjoyed my music more on the old system. Two things cured this - the first was purchasing a hicap (naim pre-amps give about 50% of their best without one)which at last resulted in a system which delivered the goods musically and the second was an improvement in circumstances at work which made me happier as a person and thus more receptive to music again.

Finally don't lose perspective because of the forum. You have one of the very best hi-fi systems on earth - satisfaction comes from being at peace with your world and your music not questing for the next box.

Happy listening,

Jonathan

Agree completely.

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

much food for thought on this issue. if the consensus is that there is no rule that dictates what you do in a given situation, and that it depends on a lot of factors, then i agree. i hope i didnt distort the intention of your original positing too much richard; if i did, apologies. this is an interesting issue though -- and i notice that someone has started a new thread on it.

what is rather curious is that a successful upgrade makes me (want to) buy more records!!! hmmm...

enjoy...