On and off you can read threads about reliability issues. On this forum, on other forums, everywhere. Some people in those discussions imply that this or that brand is not reliable because they experienced the problem with the equipment, and their friends had problems too, and their friends' aunt had their player serviced and so forth.

But it seems that you need to have access to some global statistical data to make a claim that a given brand has reliability problems.

So my question is: do such statistics exist for different companies and for Naim of course, and can they be accessed by the public??

quote:

Originally posted by zentaur:
their friends' aunt had their player serviced

This opens a debate.

Btw i think that every company keeps its secret.
I think that if you buy a 50 euros player in a supermarket and that player doesn't work the seller will change it in a blik of an eye.
If you buy a 20.000 euros machines maybe things change.

"Btw i think that every company keeps its secret."

That's what I suspected. But a funny thing is that you have those reliability rankings for cars which in most cases cost more than hifi equipment, but you don't have such rankings for hifi equipment. strange...

In my experience, Panasonic is the most reliable brand. So if reliability was the only, or primary, criterion thats what I'd choose. If performance, then Linn or Naim.

quote:

Originally posted by zentaur:
rankings for cars which in most cases cost more than hifi equipment, ...

Yes.
But you don't risk to smash your face into the first tree while driving your cd player.
If there's a warranty i don't see the problem.

I don't see any problem, either.

It's only a question of the right to have all information while choosing the product/brand, to be able to take into account ALL criteria, even if reliability criterion is not the most important one (it is not the most important for me, but still I would like to have a look at some statistics).

Going back to cars, let's not mix reliability with safety. I guess most car buyers TODAY associate reliability problems with sending a car to a mechanic rather than hitting a tree.

I've had my NAP160 for well over 20 years now and never once has it given me the slightest problem - therefore Naim make the most reliable products in the world.

So based on a sample size of 1, Naim is 100% reliable....

There you go, my anecdotal view to balance out all the other tiny sample size anecdotal views.

Jim

quote:

If there's a warranty i don't see the problem.

Apart from the fact that you may be without your CD player for several weeks - and of course the warranty expires after a couple of years.

I am sure Naim have a pretty accurate idea of the failure rate of their products - I would like to see them publish it! Although Naim back up is pretty good (when my 112 preamp had a problem the dealer lent me another while it was away at the factory) it proved somewhat expensive to be fixed!

quote:

Originally posted by Gianluigi Mazzorana:

quote:

Originally posted by zentaur:
rankings for cars which in most cases cost more than hifi equipment, ...

Yes.
But you don't risk to smash your face into the first tree while driving your cd player.
If there's a warranty i don't see the problem.

True, but for us NAIM audiophiles, for example.... buying a new piece of equipment, get it home, have a evening of great listening, post your delights on the forum for all to read and then have to send it back to the dealer 2 days later due to an issue. It is the annoying part of not having what you so impatientally waited to arrive and spent good money on, only to have to drive it back to the dealer and be without it. It makes no difference what brand or what component it is

statistics such as these are usually done by a 3rd party, hardly ever the manufacturer. Even so, statistics can be skewed VERY badly in either direction.

Regarding naim, the service is so good from the dealers, and the response is quick enough that you usually get a loner component or something to get you through.

rega1

I am sure Naim does well when it comes to service and quality of their product in general.

In this thread I wanted to raise a more general issue of having access to reliability statistics. For me it would be interesting to read how good or bad different companies are in this area. Moreover, I think publishing such data would further motivate companies to raise the quality of their products. The competitions would be tougher with benefit for the customers.

But as I said, for me reliability is not the key factor, if it were, I wouldn't choose Cyrus equipment (I had read some scary stories before I bought it). Now I am selling it and changing to Naim - by the way, not because of the reliability problems with Cyrus

Statisitcs still remain numbers and numbers must be interpreted.
You can buy the best car or the best amp in the world but if that car's engine or if that amp caps just simply stop working what will you think?
People who comes here and write "my amp, cd player etc doesn't work" do have my solidarity but all the rest is out of place, out of space and out of fairness.
Sometimes it's only a matter of a little plug that did not properly fit or someone that did sit on the remote.
This forum goes worldwide and does not have a preventive censure.
Don't forget it.

quote:

Originally posted by zentaur:
"Btw i think that every company keeps its secret."

That's what I suspected. But a funny thing is that you have those reliability rankings for cars which in most cases cost more than hifi equipment, but you don't have such rankings for hifi equipment. strange...

reliability statistics for cars come from independent surveys not from the manufacturers.

so why don't we have independent surveys for hifi equipment? I can't believe that customers are not interested in this issue.

quote:

Originally posted by gordon cavanaugh:
reliability statistics for cars come from independent surveys not from the manufacturers.

Things in life are choices.
If you decide to buy a brand you take the risk.
Any brand, any risk.
Warranty, money and customer service are another thing.

quote:

Originally posted by zentaur:
so why don't we have independent surveys for hifi equipment? I can't believe that customers are not interested in this issue.

Because, as many cars companies do, many audio companies buy space on magazines and interviews.
Others don't.
Do you know who thay are?
Good luck.

Hi,

The most reliable hifi i have ever owned by far is my naim kit.

She's over due for a service but i'm reluctant to send it off at the moment as she sounding so damn fine. Still... i always have the service to look foward to if i can find the courage to go cold turkey!

The easiest metric is the second hand value.

Maybe this post should be re-directed to the "JD Power and Assoc" Forum.

quote:

Originally posted by jon honeyball:
The easiest metric is the second hand value.

I would garee, but to some extent.

good second hand value often results from the prestige and kudos that the company earns in press reviews. So it does not always have to result from high reliability as press does not publish reliability statistics.

You can say that this second hand value can also result from opinions on different internet forums. Yes, but then again not everybody decides to express his/her satisfction or dissatisfaction with the product on the internet so you cannot treat those opinions as reliable statistical data.

I guess second hand value depends on too many aspects to treat it as a good source of reliability data.

quote:

The easiest metric is the second hand value.

Disagree - the notoriously unreliable Musical Fidelity A1 still commands a decent price (as a percentage of original retail price I would guess similar to Naims of that vintage) - the second hand price relates to desirability and intrinsic quality rather than in a direct relation to product failure rate (which as we already know, are difficult to obtain)