I use Sonority roller shelves - I have four (under the CDS2, CDPS (upgraded by Naim), NAC52, SuperCap) - and Sonority Cones for the SNAXO and its HiCap. I also have a bespoke Sonority construction for my LP12. The Linn isolation is on an Audiotech table, the other boxes on two 6 shelf Audiotech racks.
At £650 each the roller shelves are not cheap but, for me, they provide an indisputably worthwhile upgrade. I would say the Sonority products make the sound more realistic in a way that no amount of electronics upgrades will do.
Only funds prevent me form using roller shelves under all the boxes.

Sorbothane - do get rid of it!

Glass shelves - I think the issue here is thickness. 10mm minimum.

Regards

I have the finite element pagode signature (their middle range). It improved the sound considerably and its maple shelves match my maple nsats perfectly. I have not felt the need to try anything else under the componets yet. It just seems to let the music through more easily than my last rack (Target).

quote:

There are one or two contributors here, I'm thinking of Abbydog (IIRC), who are very sceptical about "fancy" supports.

Just to clarify my position here....

1)My main concern is that people are being distracted from upgrading their kit by exaggerated claims of the purveyors of fancy furniture (and wire)

2)I don't believe that furniture (and wire, and bits of wood, and lumps of rubber) are fundamental to the performance of a hi-fi system. I believe better boxes are.

3)There may be a point in the upgrade path where very expensive supports make sense. But I think these items are diverting people's funds much too early with kit which is, frankly, unlikely to show many benefits over more cost- effective solutions.

4)'Get the best out of what you have' 'Allows your equipment to work to its optimum' and similar sentiments are often sales techniques designed to syphon off cash from the gullible who actually need decent kit.

5) All too often, furniture and wire and bits of wood and rubber produce changes to the sound of kit which are not fundamental improvements but shallow alterations which show no benefits after a few days/weeks. Many of us have been there.

6) I've seen this at first hand with a close friend who was sold, frankly, an expensive pile of crap accessories with some cheap kit by a mainstream dealer - all in the cause of his profits and not my friend's musical enjoyment. I had to take him to a reputable (ie Naim) dealer to sort out the mess.

7) I am aware that statements like this risk tarring many companies with the same brush. However, a little time spent on this forum or even this thread will produce the names of products which are worthwhile, but only when it makes sense and not at the expense of a better CD player/amplifier etc

8) If you have a few hundred quid its very tempting to dash out and buy the latest wonder improvement to your hi-fi. In my experience, this money is always much better saved a little longer for the right box upgrade.

9) I'll exempt very cheap or free experiments using a bit of glass, four nuts and four ball bearings, for example. These really will tell you all you need to know about support upgrades and suggest a basis for making value judgments.

10) Discount all of the above if you want furniture because:
a)You have to put your hi-fi somewhere
b)You want it to look pretty.

Finally, its been said many, many times before but the best way through the hi-fi maze is and always will be to find a good dealer who you can work with to get the system you want...Time and money spent finding that dealer is an investment worth making.

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
If you didnt enter value into the equation, considering most of us have already bought something, the Archetype is a good rack???

It's good for holding books & printer, however. ( that's what I use them for now )

Of course I would use it if I were desperate and needed a rack so that I won't bump into a kit placed on a floor.

There's a heartening endorsement hidden in there: -

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:
It's good ...

Of course I would use it ...

Oh marketing! O tempora! O mores!

Adam,

Does that mean I can be a reviewer?

quote:

Originally posted by abbydog:

Finally, its been said many, many times before but the best way through the hi-fi maze is and always will be to find a good dealer who you can work with to get the system you want...Time and money spent finding that dealer is an investment worth making.

The tough bit is getting to "sufficient" to enjoy all the music. Come to think of it, an iPod and a decent set of phones will get you to that point. That's what I'm listening to now.

cheers

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:
Adam,
Does that mean I can be a reviewer?

You could - but this is like my favourite niece asking me if she could join an escort service.

quote:

Originally posted by Luxen:

quote:

I just received it yesterday, and listened to CDs for a couple hours last night, but so far, the results are very promising. The characteristics I've noticed so far-- increased speed, focus and detail. The change is actually wonderful-- but sometimes, when changes like this are made, they don't sound so wonderful the second day-- so I'll see what tonight brings.

I would be very interested in a follow-up of your 2nd experiences...still wonderful???

I too am thinking of a nice platform for the CD5x until I get a FRAIM....

Listened again last night with the svelte shelf under the CD5i, and these were the results:

Dramatic improvement! The music sounds more clear, more crisp—brighter sounding, but in a good way. There is more separation of instruments (including voices), but the coherency remains. The CD5i still sounds fun, it is still engaging, however, now there is more detail.

When Starker is playing on Bach: Suites for Solo Cello, the cello was more full bodied sounding. On Cat Power’s You Are Free, rather than just hearing the piano, I get more of a sense of assertive pressing of the piano keys (I later put on a little of Glenn Gould’s Bach: Goldberg Variations—and, again, the sense of the piano keys being pressed, and more body to the piano, was heard). On You Are Free, as Chan Marshall sings “Evolution,” Eddie Vedder’s voice is more distinct as he echoes her in the background.

On Vic Chestnutt’s Little album (Chestnutt is a folk singer from Athens, Georgia—he sounds like Michael Stipe but with a slight gravelly quality to his voice, and this album is mostly him and his guitar, recorded in a living room), I can hear the plucking of the acoustic guitar strings, and the scraping of the guitar very clearly—his guitar playing is by turns delicate and vigorous, and it all comes through more clearly.

I listened to Candi Staton’s His Hands, to see if the emotive qualities of her singing are still conveyed,, and they are. I also wanted to see if I could hear the contributions of all the (R&B, Memphis) session players come across—and I could hear more—the slide guitar is more clear and distinct, the pressing of the piano keys, the drums and percussion, the horns, Candi Station’s voice, and the harmonies—all very much present, crisp and clear. I was worried some of the drama and emotion of this record would be lost—but it wasn’t.

One other thing I listened to was Radiohead’s In Rainbows (the last 4 tracks). Yorke’s voice, piano, percussion, guitars—all more clear—the instruments more separated, but still part of the whole. On “House Of Cards,” which along with “Videotape” is one of my favorite songs on the album, and the one I was first drawn to, the bass still seems to dominate (and at times overwhelms) the song—I can’t really hear a bass being played, just the sound/feeling of the distorted(?) bass sound—it sounds very good, but I don’t know if on a better system or setup I should hear the bass in a different way—perhaps someone could tell me.

Anyway, this has just been a rather wordy way of saying that the Svelte Shelf has made a very positive difference so far.

Now what I need to ask myself: if the platform is good enough, does it matter what rack it sits on? What improvements would a powerline and/or hiline gain for me—am I already most of where I can be, in terms of optimizing the performance of the CD5i? One other thing I’m wondering about: if I upgrade to the CD5X, would I be losing something musically—would some of the “fun” disappear (and more generally, are there any tradeoffs in moving from the CD5i to the CD5X, or are all the changes to the good?)

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
You could - but this is like my favourite niece asking me if she could join an escort service.

Hahahahahahah!!

A triple smilies, just for you, Adam.

Dear Edo,

thanx a lot.

What do you put between your rack and the SVELTE?
Balls in cups or something like that???

quote:

Originally posted by Luxen:
Dear Edo,

thanx a lot.

What do you put between your rack and the SVELTE?
Balls in cups or something like that???

The 3 "precision couplers" that can be ordered with the svelte shelf. (I have the CD5i sitting directly on the svelte shelf.)

I could get the SVELTE-shelf with the couplers for 355$...

Dear Edo, I have the CD5x...would this be a good deal, value-for-money-wise?

Is the sound really that much better???

quote:

Originally posted by Luxen:
I could get the SVELTE-shelf with the couplers for 355$...

Dear Edo, I have the CD5x...would this be a good deal, value-for-money-wise?

Is the sound really that much better???

I paid $355 for mine, and think it's a good deal. I use it with a CD5i though. I haven't tried it with a CD5X, so can't say (although the CD5X will probably be my next major upgrade-- so I'll know then! I don't know when that will be though...)

The sound difference really is as I described it-- it does make my system sound much better.

Whether it's better than other changes one could make-- a different rack, a different shelf, a powerline or hiline-- I couldn't say, since I haven't tried them.

It doesn't seem to have any negative effects though, and it really isn't that expensive, compared to some of the other things I could try. Also, the Symposium web site mentions there is a "risk free" return policy-- I asked about the return policy where I bought it and I think they said it was a 30 day policy.

Cool, thank you, Edo.

Will think about it...and about the 2nd -hand FRAIM...

I just purchased a set of roller blocks from symposium for my CD5i. I called symposium on Friday and spoke to the gentlemen for 30 minutes, obtained lots of good information. The roller blocks are a starter kit for now. The svelt for a CD5i would be $355 with couplers. I like the idea of the roller blocks. I would love to have svelte's for each of my speakers though. I obtained some granite for setting the speakers on but I am not sure if I like the new sound with the granite and the spike pads under the speaker spikes. Any ideas out there other than "cones" under the granite?

Should I take the spikes out of the legs and set the Rega R7's on the floor?

rega1

rega1,

what change did the roller blocks make to your CD5i???

Luxen,

I have not received them yet. They will arrive Wednesday at my home here in the USA. I will post a report as soon as I set them up and have a listen.

I made a typo in my last email. I ordered (2) sets. One for my CD5i and One for my Nait5i.

I also made my own miniature isolation platforms for my speakers. I used 4mm thick corrugated plastic and 1/4 inch thick cork board. The plastic material is the same as card board. I cut 2 inch by 2 inch squares of each, and placed the 1/4 inch thick cork between and glued them all together. DRAMATIC bass and sound difference. It went back to nice and punchy bass.

update with roller blocks to come soon.

rega1

dear rega1,

looking forward to hear your report!!!

Luxen,
Yes they did, I was going to sit down and just give you the update, and you must have read my mind.

Symposium roller block report...

They came a day early, packaged nice, and no damage. The basic idea is 2 discs, with a hardend steel radius insert placed in one side of each disc (2 Discs make a set/ unit), and the radius is polished to a fine micro finish. The tungsten carbide ball bearing has the same finish.

You use (3) sets/ units per component, one cup on top of the other with the bearing riding in between. It leaves about a 2mm gap for "floating". I placed 2 on the right side and one on the left, as the Naim CD5i and Nait 5i are heavy on the right sides.

The basic premise......The bearings do not sit in the bottom of the cups. As I placed the equipment, every time I moved or bumped it to get it into position after re-attaching the cables, they only oscilated laterally in the horizontal plane, never up and down. So any frquency vibration would be transmitted in that manner. The movement would only be in tenths of thousandths of an inch (.0025mm), or less, but that is the idea.

Needless to say, The sound improved in a few ways. The instrument presentation was separated more, and the digital, vibrant sound has deteriorated dramatically. That is to say, the action of presentation of those higher frequencies is delivered a bit more smooth and not as harsh. I listened to The Who, Miles Davis, Pat Metheney, YES, U2, and I performed a before and after test. I even checked for the vibration on the equipment before and after, and I cannot feel the vibration after the rollerblocks were applied. If the girlfriend notices, then there is something to be said!!

I was going to wait and post this with pictures, but I will post some pics tonight when I get home, you should have them tomorrow to view due to the time difference.

conclusion...money well spent for the Nait/CD 5i. I would love a Fraim or Isoblue unit, but until then, I will enjoy my Rollerblock Jr. set up.

Hope you enjoyed the report, respond if you want more information. They also have "B" stock for sale on their svelte pads and other products, just ask or email.

It was late when I finished, so I will listen to some vinyl tonight to see the difference and how they are working on the Nait 5i with regard to the vinyl sound.

regards,
rega1