I appreciate that this is a variation on an oft repeated theme but I'd really appreciate some thoughts on a dilemma.

My lovely new Supernait turned up last night. My plan is to feed it with a Sonos ZP-80 (which has also just arrived!). I will report back on the performance of the unit after some proper listening on the weekend but initial impressions are that the digital output sounds very nice indeed with the Supernait's internal DAC.

I suspect that the ZP-80 will be the main source as it is hard to beat the convenience and interface of the Sonos system. On the other hand, both my wife and I like the physical ritual of loading up and playing a whole CD. So we're looking to add a CD player and the question is what would represent the best value for money in our circumstances.

There are three alternatives broadly within budget - a new CD5i-2, a second hand CD5X or another brand CD player with a digital out which we would feed into the Supernait DAC. We'd obviously prefer to stick with Naim and I'd like to buy new so the CD5i-2 is the leading contender. We'll obviously have a listen before making a decision but I would be very grateful for views as to whether we are likely to get better results with the CD5i-2 feeding an audio signal into the Supernait or using a digital feed from another brand CD player and using the Supernait's DAC.

Thanks in advance and I must say that I'm very pleased to be entering the Naim world.

Michael.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Adam Meredith,

Just a little note to DAC users - I will extend the prohibition on discussing modifications of Naim equipment to all other brands.

This will be discretionary - as Linn turntables (and other products) crop up with "bits & bobs" from other manufacturers.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Sanders:
Hi Adam,

I'll obviously bow to your rules but could you perhaps let me know why I can't refer to the fact that I have a modified rather than a stock ZP-80?

Given that you cannot mention the name of the modifying company or the nature of the modifications - specifying it as "modified" will only stimulate unhealthy interest.

Hmm, but now this is a rather impossible situation really. If we are expected to give advice on using a piece of equipment with another piece of equipment and deliver on our experience of only stock items, then things may get quite confusing if one of the items in question is not a stock model. A trivial example wouold be someone who had modified their Quad preamp to accept RCA connections.

Adam, this is not as straightforward as one would wish. I could badmouth a piece of equipment when the owner has already had it souped up to perform far better than my experience. yet, this rule precludes that person being allowed to say so. Methinks this will not work.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Sanders:
I would be very grateful for views as to whether we are likely to get better results with the CD5i-2 feeding an audio signal into the Supernait or using a digital feed from another brand CD player and using the Supernait's DAC.

Inevitably there's only one way to establish this question and that is to try it.

That said, I suspect you will need a very good CD-P with digital out to beat the analog CD5i because however good the DAC is in the SuperNait it still needs to slave its clock to that of the the CD-P, and this has a huge impact on the overall quality of the D-A conversion.

Connecting two pieces of kit digitally introduces myriad complex considerations impacting on many but understood by few - as Bob Ludwig (legendary mastering engineer) famously said "Never turn your back on digital".

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Abela:
Adam, this is not as straightforward as one would wish. I could badmouth a piece of equipment when the owner has already had it souped up to perform far better than my experience. yet, this rule precludes that person being allowed to say so. Methinks this will not work.

Then I suppose the answer is a ban on "souped up" gear.

Frankly (!) once something is non-standard it is difficult to comment or advise on it. Also - souped up doesn't necessarily mean any better.

I think this forum would rather that, if other products are mentioned, they are considered to be standard. In addition, I am not very inclined to argue this one in all its tedious exceptions.

Returning to Michael's question, I would suggest an exdem CD5x rather than a 5i. Some dealers will sell an exdem unit with the full Naim 5 year warranty in place, so you really cannot lose.

Nigel

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
In addition, I am not very inclined to argue this one in all its tedious exceptions.

Based on the number of postings you have on this one thread it looks like you really do have a FULL TIME job!

I'm with Nigel, I think the best Naim CDP you can afford would be the way to go. So a used CD5x would be the one to dem!

Regards, Chris

I have a Sonos and have tried it into various bits of kit in different ways. A friend of mine had a Sonos into a Supernait.

Our opinions are that if you're looking for sound quality, the Sonos won't take you very far.

I would get a Naim CD5x - it'll whup just about anything on the planet for anything like the sort of money you could pick up ex-dem.

And no need to soup it up either!

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Sanders:
I will report back on the performance of the unit after some proper listening on the weekend....
Michael.

Michael, the SuperNait takes a VERY long time to run in properly, you will not really be in a position to judge it's performance for some weeks yet.

Two things you need to know about using the ZP80 with a SN.

1. Make sure you are feeding the ZP80 with a wired ethernet connection as opposed to wireless.

2. Use a good quality Optical or Digital coaxial cable - I use an OptiChord from The Chord Company. It makes a LOT of difference. Naim DC1 would also be an obvious one to try.

Personally I would save your pennies for a CDX2 and use the Sonos in the meantime or if you want the best of both worlds then a NS01 server might be worth a look/listen (just not quite as tacktile as a CD...)

Macker, couldn't agree more that running the Sonos via ethernet if possible is the way to go. As I've said the sound quality through the SN is the best I've heard and is very listenable, but certainly not up the audiophile quality to any good CDP. I listened to the CD5x this weekend and Sonos paled in comparison. However, given the shortcomings I really enjoy it. The search continues for the other audioplhile source.

Michael,
I have the SONOS bundle. Although it will not play 24/96 format, the Z80 does a great job. I also have a CD5i which is a real treat. I frequent the second hand shops searching for old Cd's and vinyl alike. I enjoy the SONOS for the luxury of the play lists that can be created from the on-line music server rhapsody for $12.99 a month, and the ability to send the same music to the second floor of my home while I am doing other business around the house.

Myself and all others will tell you the CD5i is in a class of its own compared to the SONOS, it is much more superior than the SONOS for presentation and feel, and I would never give it up.

My next upgrade will be to the supernait around christmas time, or so...... I believe I will be amazed at the sound quality (based on listening at the dealer) even more with a DAC on the SN and the ability to plug in digitally.

I am not able to use anything other than a "chord" RCA to DIN for my Z80 out to my Nait5i, but none the less it is a great listen.

And yes, use the ethernet connection, it is the way to go. SONOS reccomends using a NAS "buffalo technologies" live server for a music hardrive.... which I own, and it is great to have all that information in WAV, FLAC and apple lossless on a server at your disposal.

just my 2 cents

rega1

My advice : buy the best cd player,since you have a SN.After ,you can add a Hi cap to the CD5x that makes all the difference: Source first,don´t forget!The CD 5i might be OK for the Nait 5i,never for a SN.Just ask a demo for a CD5x and then try to hear it with a flatcap,and you will understand my point of view

Thanks for all the advice.

On the Sonos front, I'm certainly using a wired ethernet connection (which does make a difference). Both my wife and I are happy with the sound quality into the Supernait. We are presently using a Stereovox HDXV interconnect but I am hoping to get my hands on a Naim DC1 interconnect to see what difference that might make. Has anyone else done the same? Any other suggestions on the digital interconnnect front?

On CDPs, am hoping to borrow both a CD5i and a CD5x for a home demo shortly. One question I have on the CD5x is whether the Flatcap2x makes a significant difference. If so, would the second output from the Flatcap make a decent amount of difference to the Supernait. Most people on here are keen on the Hipcap2 with the Supernait but the Flatcap would be rather attractive if it upgraded two components at once!

Michael.

The Flatcap2x on the cd5x is a must have.
It makes a big difference for the better.
I have not heard one on the Snait,
I would think it would improve the sound for the better though.
I use one on my Nac202.
Give it a go on your system and see what your ears think.
Munch

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Sanders:
Most people on here are keen on the Hipcap2 with the Supernait but the Flatcap would be rather attractive if it upgraded two components at once!

Michael.

That´s because the Hicap is much better,but is more expensive

I had the opportunity to demo the CD5x/SN/FC2x/HC/Sonos this weekend and here are my thoughts. Previous was Sonos-->analog-->102/FC/HC/250 (Demo was played to Sonos Faber Cemona Auditor+/-REL 3.5 series subwoofer):
1. Big improvement with the Sonos --> SN DAC especially with better quality MP3 downloads from rhapsody or wav files stored on NAS.
2. Sonos paled in comparison to CD5x wrt presence , emotion, etc... (Still love the convenience and ease of use, but not a long term digital solution for audiophile quality music).
3. CD5x/FC2x>>CD5x (FC2x adds alot to the CD5x)
4. In my opinion and that of my friend who listened with me, we preferred the SN/FC2x over the SN/HC (I used my own HC not an HC2x). While the HC made the music brighter we both felt that it was a little much, by that I mean, and we really noticed this with jazz vocals that it put the voice too much in front of the stage and seemed to hide the great playing that was accompanying the singing. I guess I'm saying a little of the balance was lost. In fact we had an additional system to compare and that was CD5x/FC2x/SN/HC/250 and felt that this was more enjoyable to us than the HC on the SN used as an integrated amp, but not as good as the CD5x/FC2x/SN.
4. If you can do so the FC2x to power both the CD5x and SN is a great way to go and definitely worth the extra $$. Alot of bang for the buck all around on this one.
5. Since I didn't have an HC2x, I don't know if that would have made a difference in my opinion. I was surprised by my results given what I have read and even more surprised that I preferred system setup 3 to 2.
6. REL 3.5 add alot to SF Cremona Auditors with the full range of lows, but it really added much to the mid-range.

If your HICAP has not been recently serviced, it's possible this may affect your conclusion–not an issue with a HICAP2.

Thanks a lot for the run down, Gary. I will definitely have to try the SN/CD5x/FC2x combination. I have read that the FC2x will power both the CD5x and the SN simultanteously but I'd be grateful for confirmation from anyone who's tried it.

Michael.