I'm about to embark on NAIM adventure when my brand new cd5x/112x/150x/fc2 on fraim is delivered next week. In the meantime.............

What's this "run in" time I keep reading about in the forum? Does it really exist? How does it manifest itself? And are there any tips of what to do and what definitely not to do when running in a system?

Thanks

Nice Kit. You must be excited.

I believe "run in" to be real but I don't believe in any hard and fast rules of "run in". Pop a disc in the cd5X and enjoy.

One other thing....sometimes frequency extremes do funny things in the first couple weeks. Try to ride this period out without changing your speaker position. You can drive yourself a lil' batty that way. In one month's time, then get serious about speaker position.

cd5x->Nait 5i->B&W 705
cd5x->Headline2(NAPSC2)->HD650

My cd5x sounded great out of the box but it kept getting better for a month or two. It's great, actually: you keep coming home from work, stick a cd on and then think "I'm sure it didn't sound this good the other day!".

That said, it can be a little up and down and every now and again it seems to sound a little worse than it did.

regards,

Tam

Most electronics take time to run it. My experiences for Naim range from 1-3 months, when an improvement (particularly at the frequency extremes) can be commonly peppered with some bloody awful days when the sound seems to go all over the place. From cold my CDX2 sounded polite and shut in. By the next day it was strutting, but it took a good 3 months to peoduce a consistant sound. A lot of this must be down to room, system and ears - not to mention the ear/brain interface!

Cheers

Harry

SJB

You think burn in time is odd, wait until they get you polishing the silver balls on yer Fraim and taping the glass to make sure it rings. You've got some 'fun' times ahead.

Enjoy your Naim

Craig

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My cd5x sounded great out of the box but it kept getting better for a month or two. It's great, actually: you keep coming home from work, stick a cd on and then think "I'm sure it didn't sound this good the other day!".

That said, it can be a little up and down and every now and again it seems to sound a little worse than it did.

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Bang on Tam!

Warning bells ring when I see such comments here as 'It was unlistenable for 2 weeks'. New Naim kit should light up your face, out of the box - what follows is icing on the cake.

Tam is also right, in that the running-in process can sometimes seem take two steps forward and one step back.

The full potential takes 2 - 3 months to achieve.

There is nothing to be gained by leaving the CD player playing a disc on 'repeat'. Just leave it powered up, and play music when you want to.

John.

Sorry guys, but I just can't buy into this "running in" line. I've had my naim system now for just over a year (see CDX2 v CDS3 ) and I have not heard any difference in all that time. I realise that a lot of hi-fi relies on deliberately creating a 'black art' scenario, but anyone with a reasonable amount of experience in the electronics trade would know that we are just not dealing with such an animal. Electronic components may change characteristics very very slightly over a given period of time, but the design of circuitry takes this into account. Any piece of analogue electronics, whether audio, rf or control system is designed to be stable. If the performance (ie the specification) changes with time, then that has to be described as an unstable and poor design. It just isn't so!

Regards

Marc

Marczed

As it was said it should sound great out of the box.

If it does'nt then maybe you don't like what Naim does? It is not a taste that everyone likes.

As you say, many electronic components and mechanical have BOL/EOL specifications. If the electronics does'nt work with worst-case parameter variations, from nominal, then it was obviously not a robust design. Likewise for uncertainties in input/output for power supplies. Then again, all the components that are in CD players/amplifiers, how their characteristics change over time, I don't know. Maybe they change quite rapidly over the first few weeks for some components and then settle down?

I could buy this one more so for speakers though. Changes in the characteristics of mechanical devices may have a more significant effect over time?

I can only report what I've heard with my own equipment with my own ears. I wouldn't expect it to automatically universally apply. Maybe I have got faulty gear - who knows? But it sounds great so that's OK by me.

I've never heard equipment from any maker that sounded optimal straight out of the box - but I'm not an expert on electronics, just a music lover.

Moving sideways - I can say from personal experience that installing a dedicated spur made so little difference as to be not worth the bother. But that's just MY findings. For what they're worth.

Cheers

Harry

Yes, totally agree about speakers. After all they are really a piston held in place with either paper or more advanced material. I certainly wouldnt expect a loudspeaker to peform to spec for several hundred hours. One other thing I forgot last time, if burn in really exists, then why don't the manufacturers do it before they ship the products? I asked my dealer this and he said that they would need too much room. But Naim are a low volume manufacturer and surely they wouldn't need that much extra space? Would it not benefit them greatly if the products sounded even better straight out of the box?

3 to 5 days should do it

cheers

Nigel

It's not a myth, it really takes a long time, around a month in my experience. Even used Naims once turned off need at least 2 weeks or more to get back into track. I don't think Naim will ever be optimized in any hifi show with such a long run-in period.

hello
when i bought my cd5x 112x 150x fc2 i was sceptacle. Iam sure its a fact now. not that this is detremental. the sound presentation changes with no reasoning behind it. Advice enjoy it. it taught me a great deal. what i liked /didnt and what made the end sound preferable over other systems. its nothing to be afraid of. dont play with your system for at least a month and play the game listen for the changes and identify them. some times its easier than others

the roads of life a covered with rabits who did not know which way to run.

signing off Rabit

Marc,
I believe there is a significant difference between electronics straight from the box and then when they're thermally stable, I can understand that fairly easily. If I turn my 82 off and then back on again after 5 minutes there is a significant drop in performance. Most of the drop comes back fairly quickly, but improvements also come gradually. This isn't just Naim, but my preamps and CD players have generally sounded better when left on.
Noel.

I bought a new HiCap a couple of years ago.

Compared it as brand new, driving my 82, against my 10 years old one. The new one sounded hard, harsh and "transistory".

The new one was left on for a month and a half, driving a Headline.

Tried it again on the 82, against the old one. Now the new one was much improved and sounded tight and controlled.

Convinced me.

JohanR

What an incredible thread....My immediate reaction was to start shouting from the rooftops that this was a load of bollocks but decided to look at the replies in a bit more detail.

dhb

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One other thing....sometimes frequency extremes do funny things in the first couple weeks

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OK, I can live with this.....although I would be disappointed if from new the colour on my 62" RPTV was variable for weeks or months (it wasn't btw).

Tam

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My cd5x sounded great out of the box but it kept getting better for a month or two.

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I can live with this as well. At these prices it bloody well should sound great out of the box!

HTH

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My experiences for Naim range from 1-3 months,

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This is where I start having some difficulty (sorry Harry) but if I was a punter who had just spent a good chunk of my annual salary on a piece of hi-fi only for it to need 1 - 3 months to start working optimally then I would be very, very disappointed and would have a terrible case of "buyers remorse."

J.N.

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New Naim kit should light up your face, out of the box - what follows is icing on the cake.

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This I can agree with although even I would allow half an hour for it to warm up...

Nigel

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3 to 5 days should do it

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OK, another view

Naimerhifi

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Even used Naims once turned off need at least 2 weeks or more to get back into track.

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Sorry Naimerhifi but this I can't agree with. If it really was the case who on earth would buy a piece of hi-fi equipment that you couldn't turn off as it would take 2 weeks to come back to normal every time?

In general I can agree that from switch on from cold it will take a little time to warm up (30 minutes or so) but weeks or months just seems like either mumbo jumbo or typical hi-fi urban legend. Even my Audible Illusions tube -pre-amp that is at the heart of my two channel home theatre system is warm in 30 minutes from cold start-up.

Just out of interest, does Naim's literature state anything about run-in or burn-in periods? I can just imagine their testing cycles for prototypes if they really believe it takes 3 months for a piece of equipment to become stable.

Build prototype, leave for 3 months to stabilize, listen. Switch off, change component, switch on, leave for another 3 months to warm up......at that rate it would 50 years to design a new piece of kit!

If equipment of this calibre, doesn't sound seriously good within an hour of being unpacked, assembled, switched on and warmed up then something is very wrong IMHO.

If I was new this forum, or to Naim, I would be in a straightjacket by now trying to make sense of all these opinions!

After 30 years of living with a variety of equipment (good and bad) I have to say that systems do sound pretty much the same day to day but it's simply me that feels (not hears but feels) things differently depending on my mood and receptivity (if there is such a word) to the music and it's emotional message.

My equipment is not new (anymore) yet my reaction as to whether it is "sounding" good, bad or indifferent at any given time is largely down to my state of mind and my emotional response rather than my reaction to the sound.

Anyway, I will be buying a new pre-amp when I get to the US in a few weeks and if it takes weeks/months to settle down I'll come back on here and eat a healthy serving of humble pie!

Cheers

Jim

Simple test.....

When my CDX2/XPS2 arrived I recorded the output directly to DAT (16bit uncompressed, as used in virtually every studio to master from multitrack). 12 months later, I recorded the same music directly from the CD player to the DAT - I can't hear any difference.

Regards

Marc

Maybe some peoples brains and ears have long time constants like some of the Naim electronics

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Originally posted by Exiled Highlander:

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My experiences for Naim range from 1-3 months,

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This is where I start having some difficulty (sorry Harry) but if I was a punter who had just spent a good chunk of my annual salary on a piece of hi-fi only for it to need 1 - 3 months to start working optimally then I would be very, very disappointed and would have a terrible case of "buyers remorse."
Jim

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Not for me Jim. Actually, what I said earlier wasn't true - failing memory. A Rega Planar 3 sounded absolutely spot on out of the box. No amp or speaker has managed that. I expect components to need a burn in. The three month wait comprised a month of variable performance followed by two months (ish) of slow subtle improvements. Like I said, no problem with that here. But it does make me wonder how good some demo gear actually sounds in the shop. Might explain whiy I've seldom been bowled over by a Naim system on demo? Don't know.

The three Naim boxes I've bought to date all sounded seriously good out of the box. They just got better. I wouldn't want to confuse burn it with sounding crap for 1-3 months. There were good times and less good times. In the case of the CDX2 it was obvious that it was worth the money when first plugged in. Now four and a half months on it transpires that to my ears and in my system and room it's actually excellent VFM. We've all been tripped up in the past I'm sure. I've sold on plenty of stuff since the mid 70s that despite my best efforts to audition properly, just didn't sound the way I wanted it to or thought it would. For the past five years I've been on a roll, but even with home auditions I'm going to get bitten at some stage. It happens.

There are no blacks and whites. Every case is unique and everyone hears differently. If there is some sort of black art involved, no one's ever invited me to an initiation ceromony! Not that I could be bothered - when a passtime becomes a relegion it's time to get the meds checked

Cheers

Harry

Burn in time??? .... What a load of S.H.I.T.E.

For cables, capacitors, resistors,etc it has been so well documented by engineers (and many enthusiasts) that hi fi nuts are just that ..... nuts.

As for electronics that can't be turned off between listening sessions .... that's an even greater load load of S.H.I.T.E.

I don't think even Naim staff would have the balls to go against credible, educated electronic engineers who rubbish this whole fairy story.

Some people even think interconnects and speaker cables make a difference. Oh dear.

The "Emporers New Clothes" still lives and breathes in hi fi .... but as far as I can see, only on the Naim forum and the Singaporean Echo Loft forums.

I love Naim stuff but I don't go along with any of this S.H.I.T.E. ..... but that's just me.