Hi All

Seeing as i'm new to the forum, i'll start with a quick introduction. My current set-up consists of a Rega P3-24 with an Elys 2 (brand new), Marantz CD-63 mkII KI-S, Marantz PM-66 KI-S and B&W CDM1 SE's. Oh yes, and i'm based in New Zealand.

While auditioning the P3-24 I took the opportunity to have a quick listen to a Rega Apollo/Brio/R5 combo (which I didn't like); and a CD5i/Nait 5i/R5 combination (which I loved... I found myself listening to the music NOT the hi-fi - which in my mind is the way it should be).

My inital question was going to be how the Nait 5 (I can get one secondhand)compared to the 5i, however while waiting for my forum registration to be approved a found a couple of threads that dealt with this so I guess there is no need to revisit the topic. So onto the next question...

I wasn't really in the market to upgrade my system until I heard these components and as a result had committed my savings elsewhere, however I can try and make it work. One way to do this would be to buy the CD5i and Nait 5i now and get the speakers at a later date. This would mean using my existing CDM1 SE's, so I was wondering if anyone on the forum had any experience with how these may go together? I know the CDM1 SE's can be partnered with some pretty serious components so I guess it a case of figuring out how well/badly they would match?

Obviously I would listen to them together before making a final decision but felt I may as well ask the question to those of you who have far more experience with the NAIM brand and sound than I do.

Any feedback would be much appreciated.

Cheers.

First of all welcome sir.

The nait5i will have no problem driving the BW's in my opinion. Almost all of us will say yes, source first, buy the 5i components and then upgrade. You will notice a difference moving from R5's to the BW's and visa versa. It is a matter of preference and music taste. You will get lots of opinions here, BW's are not a preferred choice on this forum, that is not to say they are sub-standard, it is what your ears like. I believe that you will be happy with the sound you hear when the NAIM components drive them. It is an 8 ohm speaker, suited just fine with the 5i.

quote:

I know the CDM1 SE's can be partnered with some pretty serious components so I guess it a case of figuring out how well/badly they would match?

NAIM is very serious equipment and will suit you well. Hence your migration to the forum for questions after a demo.

My system is in my profile. I have the R7's, and the P3 with Dynavector 10x5, great sound. I started out with the Nait5i

rega1

Get the Naim, stick with your speakers.

Then get some more Naim later. Continue to stick with your speakers for a while yet...

I disagree with some of what's been said here.

The CDM1SE (and the whole CDM range) was a reflection of B&W's developments further up the range in that the speakers were not easy to drive. Their on-paper specifications would lead one to believe that a 50wpc amplifier should easily drive CDM1Ses. My experience with those speakers was that they'd sound dull as dishwater without really quite some power behind them.

I've not tried CDM1SEs with a Nait5i. It may be enough to manage the speakers up to a certain level, and of course, it should be better than a Marantz PM-66KI-S, but don't expect too much from them.

If you opt to go for the Nait5i, I'd then change the speakers to something more sympathetic to your new aims and to the amplifier's capabilities. You appear to find R5s enjoyable (I find them somewhat boxy), for example, or you could consider N-Sats or something else, so long as they're relatively easy to drive, meaning they're either an easy 8-ohm load or a very stable 4-ohm load (such as Focals or Dynaudios for example). This would free up your Naim equipment to perform easily rather than with one arm tied behind its back.

quote:

I've not tried CDM1SEs with a Nait5i. It may be enough to manage the speakers up to a certain level, and of course, it should be better than a Marantz PM-66KI-S, but don't expect too much from them

Frank,

This is true and a good observation, but he has a limited budget, and he is wanting to focus on "source first". I don't believe that he would be dissapointed at the results of the 5i combo behind his speakers do you(I realize you said "they can be driven to a certain point")? Looking at the "paper" specifications, why is the speaker hard to drive? I am curious

rega1

rega1,

The on-paper specs of the CDM1SE make the speaker look easier to drive than they turned out. On paper, they should be a snap for a Nait5i to drive. In practice, they turn out to be more difficult, so this is why I said they'll only play well to a certain level.

The other problem is that, in my opinion, CDM1SEs only really come alive when playing relatively loudly so the playing range between 'coming alive' and 'too much for the amplifier' may be quite small...

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Abela:
rega1,

The on-paper specs of the CDM1SE make the speaker look easier to drive than they turned out. On paper, they should be a snap for a Nait5i to drive. In practice, they turn out to be more difficult, so this is why I said they'll only play well to a certain level.

The other problem is that, in my opinion, CDM1SEs only really come alive when playing relatively loudly so the playing range between 'coming alive' and 'too much for the amplifier' may be quite small...

Understood. 5i heads into the clipping area of its top end if you try to push it too far. The bW's like the top end from my assumption of your statement.

thanks
rega1

Thanks for the feedback so far guys.

I take your point about the CDM1 SE's requiring a lot more welly than my current amp or the Nait 5i has to offer (this was also brought up on my local hi-fi forum). The funny thing is i've always enjoyed them and never found them lacking, nor have I felt that I needed to push the amp harder either. I guess I have never really heard their full potential though.

Ideally I would like to look at floorstanders this time around (I guess this could subconsciously contradict the above and indicate that i'm not getting the most out of my CDM1 SE's); and the system I heard was hooked up to the R5's hence and I liked what I heard - hence their mention.

Any other suggestions in terms of suitable floorstanders? My understanding was that Dynaudios were quite difficult to drive too? I know we don't have quite the choice that you have in the EU but I can confirm that DynAudio, Image (a local speaker), JBL, KEF, Klipsch, Paradigm, ProAc, Rega, Sonus Faber, Tannoy's and Totems are all available in NZ.

I should also mention that my significant other is keen on speakers that are a little more flexible in terms of room placement. She isn't too keen on how picky the CDM1 SE's are in this regard, particularly that they are a few feet forward (this is a guestimate!) from the rear wall.

I may get razzed for making some suggestions as folks here have strong opinions, but.....

Dynaudios can be difficult to drive depending on the model. I have a set of 42's on stands that are great, but I also have room to move them around to accomodate the rear firing subwoofer port, room placement is a big part of your happiness with your set-up and sound.

A friend of mine just picked up a pair of R5's in piano black. They sound good at the end of a low end system, they were great at the dealer on the end of a nait5i/CDX2.

Paradigm has a metal substrate for their tweeter, it is very tiring on the ears, too much treble!!!!

SF's, wow, a great speaker, but CD5i may be your weak link to get the best sound out of them and they need good power to be driven properly. There is a thread regarding a Nait5i driving Amati's and they are expensive as all get out!!!

There are threads regarding totems, do a search.

The regas are great for vinyl replay and blues or jazz, etc. Not so good with rock and roll. But they can sit a few inches off the wall with the ports faced in (system off to the side, ports out if system is in the center) and they work great. They have their sound, just like others do, but it is my preference.

Folks on the forum love totem, Zu druids, proac's, etc....again search.

I love my R7's, they are great with Naim. But you should audition.

If I were you, I would buy the Nait5i, and the CD5i, or CD5x, and enjoy your speakers until upgrade time. Where do you want to go with your music? What is your ultimate goal? Ask those questions to yourself before buying.

rega1

Frank & rega1,

Thanks so much for your advice so far. I'm starting to build a picture of what to audition when the time comes. Dynaudios and ProAcs are out of my league but it appears that, in addition to the R5's the Totem Arro are worth looking at too. I will also investigate whether Neat and PMC are available here.

Frank - you mention that you find the R5's boxy. Is this the same for all Rega floorstanders or just the R5? Also, between the R5's and the Arro's, which require more space behind them to breathe?

rega1 - any particular reason you say that the r5's are more suited to jazz and blues and less to rock and roll?

Originally posted by rega1:
The rega line has a way of re-directing the lower frequencies to the bass driver via other means than a crossover. The position of the port on an R7 is side firing only. Folks think it is a little boxy and separated due to the design and positioning of the drivers, but not myself and vinyl/ CD replay of jazz/ classical and blues is fantastic. The R5's have a front base port that assists and gives good bass for the speaker size. What frank means by boxy, I think, is separation, and the presentation of the stereo image.

I like thr R series floor standars, like I said, my friend just picked up a set of R5's, and I think they are really very nice. Position them correctly, toe them in and they will work well. Rega is known for their turntables also, and vinyl replay sounds good through the R series due to the specific design, for that reason. Lets say that in simple terms, jazz, blues, and vinyl replay is not a complicated delivery of music. Does that help for your question?

Other speakers such as Dyn's, Totem, and Proacs have a different design that presents music in a different manner. Crossovers, woofers straight forward with no ports, etc. I think you get the picture. If you like the R5 sound then puchase them and enjoy, you won't be dissapointed, but DO audition as many as you can. The Totems and Proacs and MANY others speakers, so don't sell yourself short. Get yourself a good audition with the equipment and speakers, you may just crank up the volume on one of your favorite songs and be sold on that idea alone.

hope this helps, keep us posted, and good luck.

rega1

quote:

Originally posted by rega1:
I may get razzed for making some suggestions ...Ask those questions to yourself before buying.

I don't quite agreed with rega 1. I currently driving a pair of Dyn52 with Nait 5i...no problem with that. The older generation of Dyn is much difficult, but with current 52 & 42 they are much amplifier friendly. Do audition yourself....see whether dyn is capable of being driven by Nait5i

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Adam Meredith,

I agree viper, I have a set of 42's. I did say in my post that "SOME" models can be difficult to drive. I agree, older models, and some of the LARGE floor standers are tough to drive. If he has the room off the back wall a set of 42's or 52's will work well.

rega1

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Adam Meredith,

quote:

The older generation of Dyn is much difficult, but with current 52 & 42 they are much amplifier friendly. Do audition yourself....see whether dyn is capable of being driven by Nait5i

Were the drivers updated?