Well I thought this might interest newer members, upgraders, espically from olive to newer gear and or mixing differing models etc.
I have been scratching my head lately why my Radio Denon FM/DAB and my old turntable sounds so much better than my CD5/ Hiline with its Hicap 2
I bought the cd5 from new and demoed heavily before I purchased I really liked the slightly warmer presentation it produced way before the Hicap 2 was ever added, I still think its one of the best voiced cd machines naim have produced as its not an in your face sound but creeps up on you after time because it doesn`t intrude into the musical message as much as others.
The adding of the Hicap 2 at the time I thought was a no brainer but now after wrestling with the sound for such a long time I realise in the cd area the Hicap 2 is out.
The Hicap 2 is a huge upgrade but for me all the wrong reasons, it adds too much detail, changes things into a brighter, cleaner sound and adds too much body at the lower levels etc, in my mind it is overkill FOR THIS CD PLAYER, my older flatcap 2 although much more subtle was a much better match it gave a more life like, less hifi sound more realism.
So whats all this about, the word to me is BALANCE, after trying many configurations of my olive and 5 series equipment my honest opinion is either do olive reference or do 5 series don`t try to mix them.
At present my amplification is a 82 with 2 Hicaps on a 180.
I am now in a bit of a quandry where to go and would like comments on weather I should go to a 200 for the 180, would this again shift the balance of my 82 hicapped ?
Is anybody out actually upgrade from a 180 to a 200 with the 82 Hicapped ?
Would a 150x still be a reasonable match for an 82 ? Comments welcomed.

The issue of which power supply is best for the CD5 is a bit of an old chestnut. Each has its supporters. I have CD5x, and much prefer the flatcap 2x to the hicap2; the latter makes it sound turbocharged and quite mad.

If you are happy with your 82, an olive 250 or a pair of 135s may be the best option - the 250 is its natural partner.

But somehow I think you should be looking at the front end. A CDS2 would be ideal and would keep the olive look, while a CDS3 would be even better, but at a price. The CDX or CDX2 is another option, but has a different sound to the CD5 or the CDS series, which given your views on the hicapped CD5 may not float your boat.

Nigel

Hungry halibut,
Thanks for your comments, sorry of going over old ground, didn`t realise. I want to stick with the CD5 as I feel I will have to shed out a lot of cash to better the sound I like, and funds are not very large. That`s why I was looking to sell my 180 and go 200 or possibly even 150x as a nice balance for the 82, what do you think ?
I have always had cd players new as I have had bad experiences with second hand players, so i want to stay with CD5.Cheers.

Marco5,

Sorry to butt in but I am very confused about your comments on the Hi-Cap2. Surely the Naim philosophy is that power supplies are vitally important and that better supply = better replay of music. I appreciate that the Hi-Cap2 may have changed the presentation of your CDP, but surely the question is was it more musical? If so then the Hi-Cap2 was surely a clear upgrade. It seems that you may be saying that you prefer less music with a more laid back presentation than more music with a more up-front sound. Please don't take this as criticism, it is your system and what sounds right to you goes. I was just a little puzzled as your findings seem to fly in the face of conventional wisdom.

Peter

Pjl
In a nutshell I was saying that the cd5 to me can only be run off a flatcap if you like a realistic sound not an overblown sound that the HICAP 2 inflicted.If you like a more detailed bigger boned presentation then the hicap would suit you but its at the expense of balance.
I don`t think that the Hicap 2 makes the cd5 more musical it alters everything and makes it sound a completly different player not the one I auditioned and liked the sound of.
Now I put a Hicap 2 on an 82 and wonderful, lovely balance just seemed to gel no drawbacks whatsoever.

If the Hicap is turbocharging the CD5, then the Supercap must be the equivalent of goosing it up with Nitro- yet the CD5/Supercap combo that I tried out wasn't anywhere near unbalanced, and was a vast improvement over the self-powered CD5. The SC took all the strengths of the CD5 and greatly enhanced them, without tipping any balances.

As Nigel said, the Hicap takes the cd5x over the top.Too much turbo.
I have had a old olive and my new one on to try this .
So i dont think you are wrong in what you say.
The Flatcap2x does its job.
Also i would just like to add i use my Hicap on the Prefix and the Flatcap2x to power the Nac 202 and cd5x.
Munch

quote:

Originally posted by munch:
As Nigel said, the Hicap takes the cd5x over the top.Too much turbo.

OTOH, I loved the 5X with even a Chrome Bumper HC! ( without it, it sounded too ethereal for me )

Marco

Perhaps the CD5/Hicap2 are not unbalanced, but maybe the CD5/Hicap2/82/180 are unbalanced. The 82 and 180 are slightly bright. If the hicap makes the CD5 sound bright, the whole system may sound overly bright.

Do you listen at low volume.

My simple opinion, but when I HiCapped my CD5 it didn't sound over-anything. Simply it has more power and more control.
I was assured that the CD5's sound wouldn't be changed by a HC by people at Naim's, and in my opinion so it was.

marco5 - go with your gut feeling. The CD5 with flatcap is a great balance and a nice sound, I had one a ways back. I also had a 150 tho no X. I really enjoyed it and sort of wish I'd stayed with it.

I too went to a s/h 82 and hicaps. It's a great sound. Why not stick within the olive range and enjoy that as long as possible? or go to a serviced pair of 135 for the best of that olive class, they're an incredible deal at this point.

Sure there may be more refinement, detail etc. but that midrange is just as wonderful. Put the upgrade money into a retirement fund and feel secure watching it grow.

I have a friend that is into 20 year old sports cars even tho they have faults and maintenance. All the new ones have more refinement, A/C, extras and such, but it's really exciting to get into his Alfa Milan sedan, hear the throttle of the engine, and take on anything under a Ferrari in a curve. A 3 series beemer lost out last year in a long curving freeway entrance. What a thrill. And he was thinking of selling it on, HA!

Like putting on Hendrix vinyl and reliving the late 60s with my kit. It just doesn't get better than that. "tire tracks all across your back, I can see how you had your fun"

Marco, I agree with your opinion. This weekend and today I demoed the SN/FC2x/CD5x and the SN/HC/CD5x/FC2x. I much preferred the FC2x powering both the SN and the CD5x to having the HC powering the SN. While there was more detail with the HC the sound was just too heavy in my opinion and I enjoyed the presentation of the FC2x much better. In this case IMHO "less is more." I am not saying that this is the case with all Naim gear and from my experience this is not so, but in this particular application the "upgrade" was not an upgrade to me.

quote:

Originally posted by marco5:
Hungry halibut,
Thanks for your comments, sorry of going over old ground, didn`t realise. I want to stick with the CD5 as I feel I will have to shed out a lot of cash to better the sound I like, and funds are not very large. That`s why I was looking to sell my 180 and go 200 or possibly even 150x as a nice balance for the 82, what do you think ?
I have always had cd players new as I have had bad experiences with second hand players, so i want to stay with CD5.Cheers.

Any amps can only work with the signal they are fed. I think it unlikely that your CD5 is being strangled by your already decent olive amps. Any upgrade to the CD sound is likely to come from a source upgrade IMO as Nigel has said.

If you still feel like an amp upgrade then an Olive 250 might be worth trying but I would advise against throwing money into turning your system into a mullet - if you have funds to invest then look at a s/h CDS2.

i've been interested in the issue of power supplies and the CD5 for a while now and have read various opinions as stated above. I also accept that only prolonged listening can help you decide. What I fail to understand is why the FC may be better than a SC or HC.

A FC is ever so simple (just transformer, rectifier, smoothing caps) ... now as a PSU gets "better" (perhaps by including some nicer Caps, and some lovely regulators) the end result is "smoother" 24V DC which powers the analogue section of the CD5. Why should a less smooth 24V be "better sounding" than a more smooth 24V? I don't know the answer ... yet? Anyone??

EDIT: In order to address this for myself, I'm in the process of building what I hope will be a rather nice and flexible dual PSU. This will have very high quality components, and some rather special home built regs, furthermore these can be readily removed/changed to essentially see the effect from a FC-type through a SC-type PS.

quote:

Originally posted by marco5:
Pjl
In a nutshell I was saying that the cd5 to me can only be run off a flatcap if you like a realistic sound not an overblown sound that the HICAP 2 inflicted.

Don't worry - you're not mad. I had my (CB, serviced) Hicap on my CD5 for all of a day before reverting to my olive Flatcap. The hicap made everything sound like Sony Megabass (or similar) - ie, not for me.

The CD5's a pretty good machine; I've heard a CDX2, CDS3 and 555 and whilst all of them are better, the 5's certainly "good enough"

Marco

One option that I should have made explicit rather than implied is that you could simply borrow a flatcap 2x from your dealer and try it on your CD5. It may well address all your issues without spending lots of money and messing around with your amps. No power supply option is right or wrong - as highlighted by Kuma's response.

I view power supply options for the CD5x rather like the three bears' beds - no PS (mummy's bed) is too soft, hicap (daddy's bed) is too hard, but flatcap2x (baby's bed) is just right.

Nigel

quote:

Originally posted by hungryhalibut:
I view power supply options for the CD5x rather like the three bears' beds - no PS (mummy's bed) is too soft, hicap (daddy's bed) is too hard, but flatcap2x (baby's bed) is just right.

Grandaddy's bed (supercap) may be very uncomfortable. But I'm not so sure if it were used in the right system. There is a degree of "pushiness" as you progress upwards through the power supplies, but also an increased grip and clarity, the way I hear them.

In my view choice of power supply for CD5x depends on the rest of the system. When used with HiLine and 282 or 252, I think a HICAP2 is called for - a thoroughly enjoyable listen!

Regards, Ears

quote:

Originally posted by marco5:
I want to stick with the CD5 as I feel I will have to shed out a lot of cash to better the sound I like, and funds are not very large. That`s why I was looking to sell my 180 and go 200 or possibly even 150x as a nice balance for the 82, what do you think ?
I have always had cd players new as I have had bad experiences with second hand players, so i want to stay with CD5.Cheers.

Hello Marco

I like the CD5 too and suggest your decision to stick with it is a good one. If the 82 / 180 is doing the job well for the other sources, I would stick with that too. The combination of components in the CD playing system as a whole is OTT for you, so that just leaves the PS to experiment with. Swapping one of the HICAPs for a FLATCAP of some description would be a relatively inexpensive, maybe cash-generating route.

I used my CD5 with a SUPERCAP, and that was fine in my system; I probably would have been happy with a HICAP too. I've heard my CD5x with a FLATCAP2x and a HICAP2 and liked both. Your system is different, so why don't you have a listen to a different PS - there's nothing to lose.

Regards, Ears

Interesting question whether a power supply can be too good and thus, degrade the sound.

I had some similar observations but in a broader context. Especially in difficult rooms I found that the placement of the whole system, especially the speakers, gets much more tricky. This to an extend that active systems can be a nightmare to install in a difficult room, and a more modest system sometimes gives more satisfaction until you got the better system right.

So maybe the answer is a better setup? Earthing, phase correct, connections, speaker postion, placement ... I am not a great fan of adopting the room itself if only audio is the reason for an adoption.

Or is this a general observation, an effect of the 5 series. olive and chrome always performed better with better power supplies. If so, can anyone comment on a HiCap for a NAC 112, as I currently consider adding one on following system: CD5i, 112, 150, SBL.

Thanks!