Wazza

There is a great setup guide to SBLs on PFM in the reference section provided by garyi. It has everything you need to know.


Cheers Karl

Hi Wazza,

No, the spikes should be as short as possible. It is easy for me with a tiled floor and a carpeted floor will be different. Get the tweeters at the same height and have nothing between them if possible.

Mine are 176 cm from left wall to cabinet side.
125 between the speakers (from inside to inside)
Outside rear of cabinet 12 cm from back wall
Inside rear of cabinet 11 cm from back wall.

The guide from Gari is excellent for assembling them. Take your time and be prepared to experiment - the best way is play short extracts (about 15 seconds) from a known tune repeatedly and make chanes to the position.

Enjoy them and give a chance to settle in,

FF

quote:

Originally posted by Bosh:
Nice read PB

I sit here very envious of Peter in my windowless and aircon-less office as I struggle to find efficiency savings to combat an overspent NHS budget

Could you spell out for me the hierarchy with the Superline power. I got the Hi-line bit but does it sound better with 552 power or Hicap power and with the latter do you need 2 hi-lines?

Thanks, B

Hi Bosh,

yes I will expand on Franks summary soon,

Regards

PB

quote:

Originally posted by Wazza69:

quote:

The SBLs are certainly the bargain of the century. Peters efforts brought out more and IMO it was lowering the spikes as far as possible (it's in the SBL handbook) and getting the tweeters at the same height that really made the difference.
FF

Sorry, quick question as I will be setting my SBLs up for the first time tonight - do you mean the spikes should be extended as far as possible? If anyone else has any SBL tips like these then they are most welcome!

Thanks.

Waz

Waz,

you need to get the bottom of the speaker stand as close to the floor or carpet without touching anything.

The shorter the spikes, the more stable the speaker is.

Regards

PB

Thanks, my misunderstanding.

Thanks for your report Polarbear. It is amazing how much more can come from one's system if meticulous attention to detail is applied.

Hi Wazza,

I also have a system in Poland the has 32.5/HC/250/NAT01 (all CB) and passive SBLs. Referring to your other thread, the amplifiers and H?C date from the mid 80s and have not been srviced at all. The sound is delightful but obviously not what I hear in Spain,

FF

quote:

Originally posted by Frank F:
Hi Wazza,

I also have a system in Poland the has 32.5/HC/250/NAT01 (all CB) and passive SBLs. Referring to your other thread, the amplifiers and H?C date from the mid 80s and have not been srviced at all. The sound is delightful but obviously not what I hear in Spain,

FF

I love the look of the CB stuff, looks good combined with the new black stuff too unlike mixing ether with the olive. Is the Nat01 the only source in that system? I only have a CD5 at the moment. Considering a CD5x or a HiCap. Cant afford a CDX2 and dont really like the CDX sound.

Hi Wazza

I have a second CDS3 and one of the turntables is destined for that system. CB and black do go very nicely together but I suggest being patient and if you can run to it, a CDS2 and XPS is very good and some careful searching might locate a goodun. I don't know the CD5 or CD5x but George Johnson has opinions about them and might contribute. SBLs will show up a harsh front end.

FF

quote:

Originally posted by count.d:
Thanks for your report Polarbear. It is amazing how much more can come from one's system if meticulous attention to detail is applied.

Hi Count,

Yes I agree but what frustrates me is the number of people who are prepared to listen to a substandard system just for the sake of a little effort.

Some of the improvements Peter got from Franks system was not subbtle. You could almost claim that the total effect was at least equal to a black box upgrade but at a fraction of the cost.

I think it important for most to get the best out of their current systems before even contemplating a box swap,

Regards


PB

Hello Frank

I see no mention of the VPI TT - have you moved it on or did it not compete with the LP12s ?

Regards
Adam

Hi Adam,

It is still there but I did not have a cartridge for it and so we must wait a little while longer!!

FF

quote:

I think it important for most to get the best out of their current systems before even contemplating a box swap,

The TT set up and speaker tweeks were very important. Admitedly one TT had a new motor fitted and the other has an Ekos SE fitted . We did try them before the major refit work though and I stand by the first sentence. The work on the speaker placement in particular the spikes wrought benefits.

My cable dressing was already good and the Hydra is supported on bubble wrap - these are other areas of set up that can be important,

FF

quote:

Originally posted by Bosh:
Nice read PB

I sit here very envious of Peter in my windowless and aircon-less office as I struggle to find efficiency savings to combat an overspent NHS budget

Could you spell out for me the hierarchy with the Superline power. I got the Hi-line bit but does it sound better with 552 power or Hicap power and with the latter do you need 2 hi-lines?

Thanks, B

Hi Bosh,

Sorry its taken me a while to come back to you on this one.

We started the Superline demo with the Superline being powered by the 552 using a snaic. The snaic carries both power and source.

On the Sunday morning Peter showed Frank the improvements to be had by powering the Superline from a hi-cap. This uses two cables a snaic from hi-cap to Superline and then a source cable, in this instant a hi-line from the Superline to the 552.

Playing a couple of tracks it was obvious that being powered by a hi-cap using a hi-line was an improvement. As Frank says you get a bigger soundstage with more space between instruments, you get a greater depth of sound and you get more detail and dynamics which gives you more music. The diffeence isn't subbtle.

Frank then tried his own cable in place of the hi-line, thats his modified Lavender Snaic and to be fair the difference wasn't massive but there was sufficient improvment with the hi-line for Frank to invest in another hi-line.

Further improvements can be had by replacing the hi-cap with a supercap and although I haven't heard the direct comparison, I would imagine the supercap builds on the improvements mentioned above.

Now Frank did mention that the hi-cap snaic combo was better than the superline being powered by the 552 and I would agree with him. The comparison wasn't done with a standard snaic but I would imagine that this must be better with the power and cable being sperated into different cables and the 552 not having to work so hard but of course I stand to be corrected if anyone has a better opinion on this.

On the peter Gabriel tracks we played the improvements from the hi-cap, hi-line were obvious from the first few bars!

Regards

PB

Bosh,
Don't you worry - you are soon about to see/hear some differences of your own

PB has already done so!

Nice pictures and write-up, chaps!

quote:

Originally posted by Polarbear:

Now Frank did mention that the hi-cap snaic combo was better than the superline being powered by the 552 and I would agree with him. The comparison wasn't done with a standard snaic but I would imagine that this must be better with the power and cable being sperated into different cables and the 552 not having to work so hard but of course I stand to be corrected if anyone has a better opinion on this.

On the peter Gabriel tracks we played the improvements from the hi-cap, hi-line were obvious from the first few bars!
Regards
PB

The SNAIC was standard, but the lavendar 4>5 was not. Being the stripped down racing version without a plug body or locking ring as Frank mentioned earlier.

KR

Peter

Peter, you've forget the final part of tuning up the LP12... getting rid of the Dynavector

Andrew

quote:

The comparison wasn't done with a standard snaic but I would imagine that this must be better with the power and cable being sperated into different cables and the 552 not having to work so hard but of course I stand to be corrected if anyone has a better opinion on this.

Bosh, PB...Peter and I did this comparison when he visited my place a wee while ago. A few others have done it as well including Gregg and concensus was that direct powering off a 552 is better than using the HiCap with a standard SNAIC.

I also can confirm as you report that using a HiLine 4/5 with the Superline powered by a HiCap is a step up from powering direct off the 552.

However I think the differences heard will depend on several factors including not only the TT setup arm & cartridge but also system resolution. For me Frank's active SBL's were clearly pin sharp as far as clarity is concerned when I heard them a couple of weeks ago.

regards
Geoff

quote:

Originally posted by Wazza69:

quote:

Originally posted by Frank F:
Hi Wazza,

I also have a system in Poland the has 32.5/HC/250/NAT01 (all CB) and passive SBLs. Referring to your other thread, the amplifiers and H?C date from the mid 80s and have not been srviced at all. The sound is delightful but obviously not what I hear in Spain,

FF

I love the look of the CB stuff, looks good combined with the new black stuff too unlike mixing ether with the olive. Is the Nat01 the only source in that system? I only have a CD5 at the moment. Considering a CD5x or a HiCap. Cant afford a CDX2 and dont really like the CDX sound.

Dear Wazza,

So far I can't help with regard to this thread, as I heard Frank's Spanish set before I suggested he replace his 52 with a 552, and then provocatively offered the thought of changing his two Olive 250s for two 300s. Amazingly this would come to pass, so I am not in any position to know how wonderful this set must now sound! It was marvelous before the changes!

[Sorry Frank. You only asked me over for a week's hols, and I make suggestions costing a fortune! Mind you you did ask how I would make the set even nicer! I hope I am forgiven!!!].

But I can tell you a little story about his Warsaw set with NAT 01, and CDS 3 as sources for [all Chrome Bumper] 32.5 with Hi-cap feeding a venerable 250 on SBLs and on a different day Linn Sara speakers.

This is a really lovely set. Old school Naim was always fantastic. I have a 72 [Olive of course] with CB Hi-cap and CB 140, so you will see I have confidence in these old pieces to be musical.

One day nearly two years ago now I was in Warsaw and both Frank and Anna had to leave me to it, and I planned a trip out on the Warsaw trams to visit a few places, but left on my own with Frank's lovely old fashioned set I spent three hours utterly concentrating on some lovely music. No finer compliment could be payed to a replay set. I never noted the set, such was its natural correctness!

On the CD player issue, I am a tremendous admirer of the CD5, and also am not convinced by the CDX series in comparison, but that is a personal reaction - not universally shared. Perhaps I should duck now, but there it is.

I have an idea that may appeal. The old CDS2 is one heck of a player, and still serviceable by Naim when the by now aged machine's transport finally requires replacement. Of course you have to have the XPS to power it, but even so I personally would save and aim for this, and even budget on an eventually having a transport transplant. Only a suggestion, but not necessarily much more expensive than CD5x/Hi-cap.

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by Frank F:
Hi Wazza,

No, the spikes should be as short as possible. It is easy for me with a tiled floor and a carpeted floor will be different. Get the tweeters at the same height and have nothing between them if possible.

Mine are 176 cm from left wall to cabinet side.
125 between the speakers (from inside to inside)
Outside rear of cabinet 12 cm from back wall
Inside rear of cabinet 11 cm from back wall.

The guide from Gari is excellent for assembling them. Take your time and be prepared to experiment - the best way is play short extracts (about 15 seconds) from a known tune repeatedly and make chanes to the position.

Enjoy them and give a chance to settle in,

FF

Hi Frank,
After the chat with Peter on Sunday while you and Nigel were listening to sounds.
I moved my SBLs ,Both in to the same as yours t they are now 178 inside box to inside box.
They sound so much better like this.
Cheers Munch.