Blimey, am I right in concluding that for you guys the Chord cables have gone from the latest "must try" accessory to a pile of shite in one evening?

I'm left wondering how you ever liked them in the first place.

Good choice of music.

Steve

Chris didn't say pile of shite. The Indogos were discarded because in the context of the 555, 552, 500 system they didn't sound as engaging or emotional as the hiline and standard din/xlrs. The Indigos certainly let more information through, more extreme frequencies etc. In hifi terms they are better.

Now, in the context of the 555, 552, 300 systems that Chris and I run I am more than happy with Indigos. If I knew I was staying with a 300 then Indigos are a good choice. Now knowing what a 500 is capable of and having one at home for a few days Indigos just add an extra level of complication/distraction.

The purpose of the evening was to work our way through the pile of "toys" that John had kindly brought along. It was a lot of fun comparing and contrasting audio cables, mains cables and black boxes.

Hi Graham,

So the choice of power amp ultimately affected how the ic cables sounded (in relation to each other)?

I find it interesting because the quest is often to get as much information from recordings as you can. Products that masque detail or limit the potential of the signal are usually not preferred. Or are we really talking about same level of detail, differently presented?

Your tests also suggest that different cables might be re-tried after any upgrade or change.

Steve

quote:

Blimey, am I right in concluding that for you guys the Chord cables have gone from the latest "must try" accessory to a pile of shite in one evening?

No!

They do lots of good stuff but there was a very obvious loss of emotion/musicality/whatever-you-please-to-call-it compared with the Hiline/standard Naim interconnects. I think they are definitely more "hifi" and as such have a big initial wow factor. But for long term musical pleasure I am happy to admit that Naim have got it right.

Having heard an all 500 system finally at home though I am now clear in my own mind that the system synergy there is utterly spell-binding. It'll be interesting to hear it again at Graham's.

I think the level of detail the Indigos let through is much greater than Naim cables. It's almost like having a bigger hose and more water flowing. The soundstage Indigos present is much bigger too. With Naim cables the image seems clamped between the speakers, but with Indigos the speakers just disappear.

On a 300 they really do work.

Last night was my first proper listen to a 500 and it is a much better amp than the 300 (and so it should be). It really does "boogie like a bastard". In this system the Indigos again let more information flow, but somehow the emotion was lost. I can't comment on if/how the imaging changed because I wasn't sitting in the "design ear" chair. They do sound bigger and there are certainly lower bass notes that come through.

If your goal is to extract as much information from a CD then Indigos are definately the answer. As has been feedback here from other members, Indigos don't necessarily sound as engaging.

Chris made a good point. Perhaps we were trying to fine tune the 300 with cables to make it sound more like a 500??? Possibly.

Sorry I was typing while you had that last exchange.

quote:

Or are we really talking about same level of detail, differently presented?

The Naim cables seemed to bring the vocals into sharper focus, which is probably where the perceived enhanced emotion springs from.

Your tests also suggest that different cables might be re-tried after any upgrade or change.

That was certainly my conclusion. But it was also economics. I'd rather save my money to put towards a 500 in the future ecause I would definitely not want Indigos on a 500.

quote:

That was certainly my conclusion. But it was also economics. I'd rather save my money to put towards a 500 in the future ecause I would definitely not want Indigos on a 500.

Hi Chris,

Sounds reasonable to get where you want to be (kit wise) with recommended or basic cables. Once you are there, you have plenty of time to try other bits. I think it could get very tricky if, as you seem to have found, some cables work better with some components. The permutations could be endless.

But it would certainly explain why some prefer different cables.

Steve

Graham has the 500 at home now. His last known communication was a text to John - "You
b*stard"!

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Kelly:
Graham has the 500 at home now. His last known communication was a text to John - "You
b*stard"!

Don't worry - I am imposing a blanket ban on all mentions of the NAP 500.

The 300 is warming up very nicely.

This is the third thread recently documenting 300 fans changing into into 500 cheerleaders.

Derek
You can give John Nelson a bollocking when you see him!

Let's be clear. They are both very fine amps. Until I heard a 500 at home I had not realised just what the extra £10k buys. I don't think I'm a cheerleader (haven't got the body!) but I am now a fan of both. Barring miracles in my bank account, the 300 stays and I shall be delighted with it.

Chris - I never had the 300 vs 500 dilemma to resolve as the upgrade was from 135s to a 500 the 300 was only a sparkle in Salisbury's eye at the time.

Whenever I have heard a comparison the 300 always sounded to be incomplete compared to the 500 - however one would expect the 500 to be an improvement<g>.

I am trying to get John N along to listen to my system as he is partially responsible for procuring it for me. So it is only right for him to hear what he helped me to have.

So Graham, after 2 days with the 500 at home what's the verdict?

Sorry, back to the thread....

I have just plugged in an Indigo interconnect in place of the HiLine connecting my 555 to the 552.

Big difference! The instruments are more discretly placed and the notes stop and start in a more clear manner. Complex stuff seems easier to understand.

I will try a few more comparisons before coming to a conclusion. But at the moment, its a great addition to the system.

David

I have not heard the Indigo but I wonder if the times when the Indigo is found to be better than the HiLine is when the HiLine is not optimally installed or has not been relaxed in the appropriate manner.

Just wondering and trying to understand how two such different views can exist.

Derek, I promise you that there is no greater cable massager than young Mr Russell! Long before Scotty's recent discourse on the subject Graham was posting here about the need to install correctly. Indeed I would credit Graham with the whole approach to how to plug in the Hiline optimally.

It is interesting that David is the first person to come out and agree with us about the Indigo effect. At the moment I am back with the Hiline and although I think it does a fine job, I am already missing the expanded soundstage and detail which came via the Indigo. However, on the principle that changes are best effected serially I am going to let my new Isotek power cables bed in before going back to the Indigos. I think this is a question of when not if though. (Good news for John N if he's monitoring this thread!)

Chris,
So far, it has been fascinating, but no conclusion reached.
I borrowed some Pulsar Points from Desert Rat a few weeks ago. He has them under all his Naim equipment. For me, they changed the sound but ultimately I lost some of the music.
The installation of the HiLine was as per all the recommendations and I think it was as good as I could get. The Indigo is so stiff that it touches the rear wall and maybe there are more improvements to come, when I get it properly sorted.

David

David,

It's interesting to read your initial thoughts on the Indigo. It is stiff but I managed to bend it enough so it hung free without touching rear wall or burndies. The din/xlrs were also suitably manipulated to run them clear of other cables.

They do seem to let more music through. Yes they sound different to Naim cables . Are they better - very interesting question. I think so.

Having lived with the 500 over the weekend I now have some decisions to make:

Stick with 300

Stick with 300 and add Indigos

Swap to 500

Obviously financial implications are involved

Indigo v Hiline

The only other person I know who has gone the Hiline to Indigo route did it while they had a 300, they now have a 500 (which they were amazed at the 300 to 500 improvement) and I have not heard if they have revisited the Hiline to see how the two compare with a 500.

Weird - the Indigo is fairly stiff but not unduly so. In fact, it's positively floppy by comparison to the Signature (which is stiffer than a stiff thing in stick world).