quote:

It is difficult to point at what makes a system special for you.

What you wrote below!

quote:

In my case (so far) the magic item has been the 552. I can conceive many systems from Naim that would satisfy me - provided they sensibly included this preamplifier.

I couldn't agree more!
The 552 makes a system very very special indeed, it will always be first on the list for me!

quote:

Originally posted by Edouard:

quote:

comparing a 252 to the 552, the 252 being the more 'refined'

The 552 is the most refined and musical preamp I have ever heard!
You must have made a mistake typing

Regards,
Edouard

Edouard

No mistake in typing, maybe in what I was trying to convey has been misunderstood, my apologies.

You probably will not find a more 'refined' preamp than the 252, but then the 552 brings something extra, IMO not more refinement but certainly more musicality. It's hard to define, as Adam has said, you just 'get it'.

I tried to correlate this with maybe the 300 being more 'refined', and maybe the 500 being more 'musical'.

It's not a criticism of the 252, nor the 300, I owned the former for 4 years and I loved every moment of my time with it. My take was that these units maybe do hi-fi in an exemplary fashion, maybe the ultimate in refinement, and this is great, and for most, much more than enough.

But then the 500 series comes along, and the 552 in particular, shows that there is more to be had, albeit at a substantial extra cost. The 552 has taught me very quickly that to own any piece of the 500 series should make you count yourself as one of the lucky ones.

I have always believed that the preamp is the most important part in any system, so Adam's point in the 'magic' of the 552 has great relevance, it can be the key component on many a system combination. It is clear that the 500 and 555 probably need a 552 to perform to their best, the 552 however, can bring 'magical' qualities to components lower down the Naim tree, already this is being borne out in my early settling in period.

Every one of us has their boundary lines drawn in their heads, but certain products push those boundaries, people cough and choke at the 500 series prices (I know, I've had this niggly cough for 5 years now!), without a doubt, there has to be strong reasons for splashing this sort of money. And each one of us will have different reasons and priorities inside varying boundaries. None of which needs justification, other than a recognition of the enjoyment and contentment and, not least, the good fortune that you have when owning any one of those componenets.

Regards

Allen

Great post Allen, I couldn't agree more!

Mark

quote:

I wonder if I have my take on this correct, it's why I asked whether peoples musical preferences had an influence on choosing say, a 300 over the 500. Other than the big leap in price, (which I feel can be mitigated when comparing an ex-dem 500 to a new 300),

Allen....There is perhaps a portion of truth in this. More beat driven music and some Jazz that begs for some excitement may seem a little more soothed down on a 300 compared to the 500.

quote:

The 300 seemed more refined (much like comparing a 252 to the 552, the 252 being the more 'refined') which could be to people's liking if they are into their classics, chorals, etc. (not me by the way). Is the 300 more benign?

I don't really like the use of 'refined'in this context either, it can be mistaken for sedate which is not the case with any of the kit in discussion. Certainly with appropriately full range speakers the 300 does a beautifull job of classical and generally more subtle music.....BUT the 500 can do that aswell.... and turn on the speed and dynamics more than the 300.

quote:

Some comments suggest the 500 'disappears' which was definately not my recollection of the 500, maybe this is so once you live with the amp and get used to it. Again, my re-collection was the 300 does 'all the right things', the 500 does seem to get a hold of the music and present it in it's 'own way' (again, very similar to the 552 over the 252).

... in the home once the system has been retuned to the presentation of the 500 (speaker placement will probably need to be re- optimized due to the more weighty delivery) the 500 does indeed 'disappear'... and your other comment here is right on the money.

The 252 has a signature sound which is very compatible with the 300 and CDS3 which as a combination have a slightly understated though beautifully musical delivery which goes loud with great control. The 552 OTOH has what amounts to an extra 'gear' fitted. At a certain volume level the whole musical image becomes much more alive and moves forward into the room in a very involving way. In a sense this same effect lurks in the 500. It can be just as subtle when called for but if you have the courage and the situation to give it a bit of welly it will reward with a commanding dynamic delivery that isn't quite there in the 300.

regards
Geoff

quote:

The 252 has a signature sound which is very compatible with the 300 and CDS3 which as a combination have a slightly understated though beautifully musical delivery which goes loud with great control. The 552 OTOH has what amounts to an extra 'gear' fitted. At a certain volume level the whole musical image becomes much more alive and moves forward into the room in a very involving way. In a sense this same effect lurks in the 500. It can be just as subtle when called for but if you have the courage and the situation to give it a bit of welly it will reward with a commanding dynamic delivery that isn't quite there in the 300.

Geoff, you articulate this much better than I did. For me, it's all about the involvment. The fantastic thing about the 552 is that it engages you and involves you even at relatively modest listening levels. I get what you are saying about increasing the welly, the dynamics really make you sit up and notice (rather than just increasing the decibels). I guess this equally applies with the 500 because of the control discussed earlier in this topic.

Regards

Allen

I have neaver heard an NBL so can't offer much there, but I'm of the opinion that the 500 has much more to offer than what sort of loads are involved with a given speaker or room.

Comparing to the 300, by which I was mightil,y impressed, I was more than anything else stunned by the delicacy of the 500 in the midrange in particular. I honestly believe it's in another class altogether, with more shading at low volumes and tremendous detail when driven hard.

hth

Mike

PS: Please try and get an uadition, though.

PPS: Congratulations on your 300 Adam.

Oh good grief. This I do not want to hear! Surely the 300 is good enough! It's a really big leap in price from 300 to 500. Maybe pre-loved is the way to go.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Kelly:
Oh good grief. This I do not want to hear! Surely the 300 is good enough! It's a really big leap in price from 300 to 500. Maybe pre-loved is the way to go.

There are lots about

Hmmmmmmmm. So what are those 500 owners moving to?

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Kelly:
Hmmmmmmmm. So what are those 500 owners moving to?

caravans

...but supposing you've got 500s AND a caravan???

quote:

Originally posted by tonym:
...but supposing you've got 500s AND a caravan???

Hippy

Rich hippy!

Alleen,

What's important is to have the 552 in the system, the result you'll get at this level, cds3 or 555, 300 or 500 will depend of the succesful equation of the electronic/speakers and room.

Everyone who listened to the system at my place adviced me not to touch anything in the system and that speaks for itself.
As Geoff rightly said "at this level system synergy is more a factor" adding that in my case, there is certainely no need of any amp ugrade nor source upgrade.
Sometime a system sound so right and so good that you just don't question it.

I don't know what you mean by "refined" but having heard on different occasions the 555 and the 500, my personal preference goes definitely toward the CDS3/555PS and the 300, they have IMO an outstanding musicality and are such a fantastic match to the 552.

But to answer you question about the NBL, having heard all the possible Naim amp at dealer and friend with those speakers, I think the 500 will give you the best result, none the less you should do the demo if you can.

Regards,
Edouard

Edouard,
how about trying the 500 in your context ? With the Goddesses, this should be fun (sorry, if this has been discussed, here, already, didn't read all thread..)

cheers
Stefan

quote:

sorry, if this has been discussed, here, already, didn't read all thread..)

Yes Stefan it has been discussed here already, here what I answered:

1- I have listened at length so many times and for hours if not days to the 500 at the dealer and at friends and never fancied having one.
...listening to the 552 made me want to grab one ASAP!!!

2- I don't like big bulky gears and I think the NAP 500 far exceeded any sensible budget, when the 300 is giving me already all the magic I need for much less.

Stefan, how about trying yourself the 500 at your place if you're fancying one

Regards,
Edouard

Me, fancying a 500 ? Misunderstanding, Edouard...

Not enough time.

Can't even sort out the speakers.

Let alone amps...

No, no... Wrong target.

On the other hand...

cheers
Stefan

That's like sitting in the seat of an Aston Martin in the show room.....


run,

run as fast as you can....

I like my 300 too. I can't imagine a 552 in front of it.

You can Glenn!

quote:

I call the 500 the 'incredible disappearing amplifier'. Since its arrival it has got on with its job and I honestly never notice it - its that good.

Bang on Abbydog. I guess that's what we're ultimately all after - the equipment not getting in the way of musical enjoyment.

There is a wonderful consistency to the performance of the latest 'Reference' series Naim kit. Once it's set up correctly and working, you can forget all about it.

There will be howls of derision from the 'CB/Olive brigade' but I experienced a definite sense of inconsistent performance when I had it (more so 'active').

No cruelty intended Adam - You'll love your new 300.

John.