With a few threads on the the topics of Supernait Dacs, the future of cds and so on. I thought I'd ask and see who here has embraced the future and is streaming music etc to their Naim set ups.

What are you using and what your thoughts on the whole process of setup? Where hifi meets software.

At this point I'm using a SB-3 from Slim devices. I'm not using it for much more than internet radio and the odd demo file someone sends me to learn and review. I have all the music on cd or vinyl so I haven't spent the time to rip all my music. (But my wife would love for me to get all the racks of records, cds and dvds out of the living room).


It looks like the NAS hard drive servers are a good way to go. Thoughts?

Dean

I'm definitely on board with that if it sounds as good as a CD555 ( so far not ), I'll ditch all CDs in a heart beat.

I've done the SB2 + DAC thing a few years back but user interface and set up were too geeky for me. Plus ripping of CDs were too laborious. ( I see now there is a service for that sort of things. But I worry about the quality as it varies greatly )

A HD music server is great for convenience. I enjoyed its convenience very much, but musically it was a sort of Mcdonald dining rather than sit down meal at a nice restaurant.

Anyway, it's possible to get a good tune out of it, if one throws a ton of money at it, but the various show demos haven't been very convincing.

In addition, we are both so-called *techno-phobe* in that anything computer related, too afraid something to go wrong. CD players and home cinema *thing* are bad enough, I don't want to complicate our lives more just to listen to tunes.

There are a number of ups and downs to server based, just like any other medium.

Where I think it has potential for the future is that it can sound more 'analogue' than CD. I do not know why this is an perhaps its just my experience. I can only think that the act of getting them 1s and 0s off a cd every time does something that streaming does not, or does differently.

There can be issues though. Don't expect to use anything other than lossless or the original file, you will be shown up. It can sound average at best with compression.

I use an AppleTV. Its not advertised as a HIFI product as such. My feeling is that its a device that delivers the music to HIFI equipment. Whats to expect from it?

Well it needs to stream music from a computer, it needs to do this without interruption. For that it works

It needs to output A Digital signal to a DAC cleanly and without addition or subtraction. It does that too.

It needs to be simple, it does that.

With these areas ticked you want to be in a position where the device works from you, from instal to use. To add music stick a cd in the computer. That seems straight forward. To get it on the network, turn it on. That seems straight forward. To hook up to your music type a given password into itunes, that seems straight forward

And thats it.

Onto comparisons. Well lets be fair about this. The AppleV costs £200. The DAC (An old Meridian) £100, the computer (Mac Mini) £400 and 3 400gig harddrives £80 each, total £940

Does it sound as good as a CD555, not bloody likely.

Does it sound as good as a CDx?

....

Gary,

Have you taken the time to compare Apple lossless vs Wav files?


Dean

quote:

Onto comparisons. Well lets be fair about this. The AppleV costs £200. The DAC (An old Meridian) £100, the computer (Mac Mini) £400 and 3 400gig harddrives £80 each, total £940

A DAC plays a serious role in this.

I haven't tried an old Meridian DAC, but when I was playing around with an SB2, I tried various DACs ranging from US 500$-7k$ DACs at home.

Not only different DACs can make a significant difference, digital cable also varies ( good and bad depending on combinations )

One thing I've learnt tho, a computer as a transport isn't a bad thing! It favoured very well against some costly stand alone transports.

I am still hoping Naim to come up with a stand-alone DAC or maybe a built-in DAC in the next generation preamps.

Cool to have an optional DAC in a 552, for instance.

I use a Yamaha HD1300 hard disc recorder for roughly 75% of my listening, the unit contains 120 hours of (uncompressed) music uploaded from my cd or cd-r (non-commercial release) collection.

For the past 6 months I have also used an Apple Airport Express (using its internal dac, not an outboard) for playing files wirelessly to the home audio system, the files are downloaded to ITunes in our MacBookPro - primarily live recordings of taper-friendly bands as well as occasional streaming of internet radio. Most of the files are in either VBR MP3 stored in ITunes or flac downloads converted to AIFF lossless and stored in ITunes. The AIFF file size is 3-5 times larger than VBR MP3 and appproximately half the size of flac (I think, as I really don't understand all this computer stuff that well, but, hey, I got it to work). I have no complaints sound-wise about either, and the quality of CD-Rs burnt from either the MacBook or the Yamaha are fine.

Jeff A

Dean,

I've been using a Sb3 since Christmas. I've added to it gradually and know it compares directly to my cdx2/xps2/hiline.

Sb3 £200, Benchmark Dac1 £540, Naim DC1 lead £150, Hiline £500, a redundant Apple Emac £300 and 2 off external hard drives £140.

The emac lives in the cellar under my listening room linked to the sb3 with standard cat5 ethernet cable.

I rip to uncompressed aiff/wav. Each cd takes exactly 2 minutes to rip.

It streams absolutely faultlessly and sounds great. I used to keep comparing it to my naim cdp but don't bother anymore, confident the streamed music is every bit as good as the cdp.

Keith

Chaps,

The clever bit is not getting the 1 and 0's off the media, iTunes does bit for bit copying, but turning them into analogue noise.

The "source is king" motto must now apply to the conversion process and the transfer of the analogue signal to the amp.

For storage network attached storage (NAS) is the way to go. The main advantage of NAS being that your PC/MAC does not need to be switched on all the time and the storage can be located where ever you like. I would avoid wireless though as the data rates can be patchy and subject to interference.

Qnap make some nice single and multiple disk housings.

I am looking forward to moving to this model of replay when funds allow.

Jono

I have slowly started transferring my LP's to hard disc via my Edirol R1 digital recorder. Some time in the future, when I'm old and frail, I'm planning to have all my music on some kind of server (I can then lie in bed and listen to music while I'm waiting for the pretty nurses from the health care to come and feed me). But this is along time project and I'm not comiting to any specific technology right now.

I'm certain that having the music on some kind of server, together with a download service of some sort will be the future for most music interested people. As long as the downloads are in silly MP3 it will not attract the serious audiophile, though. But that's probably just a matter of time before downloads will be in some proper format, remember, Linn is already offering high resolution downloads.

And vinyl will continue to live on for a long time and most probably outlive CD...

JohanR

quote:

The main advantage of NAS being that your PC/MAC does not need to be switched on all the time and the storage can be located where ever you like. I would avoid wireless though as the data rates can be patchy and subject to interference.

Jono,

My old emac on sleep is virtually off, not even a cpu or power supply fan is running. When I turn on my Sb3 it powers up from sleep (WOL Wake On Lan) because it is connected by an ethernet cable. I don't think it is possible to WOL wirelessly.

Keith

Disclaimer: I cannot speak for Naim cd players as it is so long since I have heard one, and can only relate this to the cd player I owned until very recently: Resolution Audio Opus 21. This player has been reported by many to sound in the same sonic ballpark as a CDS3/XPS2, and therefore ahead of a CDX2/XPS2. I haven't done a direct comparison with the CDS3 and suspect it falls a tad short but I do subscribe to the 'better than CDX2/XPS2' based upon my own experiences with either player.

OK, now that that's out of the way, I recently became a dad for the first time. Our boy, Conor, is now a little under ten months old, and now nearly walking. I realised a few months ago that expensive, semi-fragile audio equipment was potentially an accident waiting to happen, so swapped my valve amps for a rather bullet-proof solid state integrated (with remote, so it can be operated behind glass). I also decided I would investigate music streaming, having been intrigued by the Squeezebox concept for some time.

To begin with, I bought a stock wireless SB3, and began ripping CDs from my collection into my music server (initially an older Shuttle PC). The sound quality of the SB3 was intriguing - it was surprisingly detailed - not so much as the Opus 21 but more than I'd expected - but had a curiously 'hourglass' sound, which emphasised bass and treble, or perhaps held back the midrange, I can't say. It was fun, but I knew that long term musical satisfaction wouldn't last with the little SB3. The memory of the Opus' fast, dynamic and analogue sound lingered and whilst I appreciate the handiness of having my collection instantly available, I knew I was compromising on the audio quality a bit.

By this point I knew, though, that the Opus had to go and I quickly sold it for a decent residual (my Opus being 4 years old by this point).

I then borrowed a Behringer DEQ2496 to try to see if room correction plus the SB3 would reduce the gap between the Opus (no room correction) and the SB3. It did, revealing my room to have a minor dip in the upper midbass, which partly accounted for the leanness of the stock SB3.

At this point I was sold on the idea of music streaming so when I had the chance to trade-up to an SB+ I did so.

The SB+ is basically the SB3 modded in a 'Naim' way - external PSU, uprated components, two box. It is considerably better than the stock SB3 in sonics, and for that matter quite a bit more expensive too.

Without going into too much detail, it is a superb bit of kit. I believe that (with unlossy source material, e.g. FLAC) it is at least the equal of the £3k Opus 21, and perhaps better in some areas. It is particularly impressive in the bass and in its timing. I would not be surprised if this relatively affordable two-box player compares favourably to the CDS3, though of course that isn't something I can readily try. In my opinion, though, the fact that it compares favourably to one of the most highly regarded cd players in the 'under £4k' category tells me in no uncertain terms that:

(a) streaming music devices have arrived at (cough) audiophile quality, and
(b) the same care needs to be taken with these devices in their design as with cd players - e.g. external PSUs, uprated components, good mains.

No going back for me. The fact that I don't need to compromise on sound quality to go with a music server has won me over.

Apologies for the length of reply!

john

In my experience, the advantage of convienence and yes geek factor does outweigh a few flaws in saound.

Its not quite as good as a CDX but perhaps a better dac would fix this, but then you are into the price of the CDX2 anyhow. Its difficult.

As for NAS. Unless youa re going to do this right, which with my research will be a minimum of £1000, I would avoid it like a desease. It was a nightmare getting one of these things to work, a lot of hardwork when a PC has it covered.

A mini uses 30watts of power when going full pelt, hardly world destroying.

quote:

Its not quite as good as a CDX but perhaps a better dac would fix this, but then you are into the price of the CDX2 anyhow. Its difficult.

An SB+ is £1k. I had a computer already. The combination sounds better than a bare CDX and is a lot cheaper than a new CDX2. Taking into account the cost of a dedicated media machine such as a Mac Mini or Shuttle PC plus hard disks, you may be right, but if you're like me and already have all that stuff, it's a very cost effective way to go.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Anderson:
I use a Yamaha HD1300 hard disc recorder for roughly 75% of my listening, the unit contains 120 hours of (uncompressed) music uploaded from my cd or cd-r (non-commercial release) collection.

Jeff A

I have one these and it's very good, but I hardly ever use it - I find the original vinyl or CD sounds better. I'm a complete Luddite really, but I simply prefer the sound of CDs and vinyl. If I need to burn a CD then I just use the MAC and play back on the CDX2.

As I work in the computer industry (yes boring job I know), I often build systems that record data to DVD-R or CD-R juke boxes to keep it safe because of the unreliability of hard disks, So if I had a music server then I want it all backed up on CD/DVD in any case.

I've heard one SqueezeBox/Benchmark DAC system and it was OK. I'll wait for Naim to bring out a music server and then see (hear) what it's like.

ATB Rotf

My situation is all about convenience and access ..... my ultimate goal, if I can work out catering and hygiene issues, is to never have to leave my chair. I know it isn't much, but we all need goals

Jeff A

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Anderson:
... we all need goals

Jeff A

None more so than Ipswich Town when the football seasons starts next Saturday.

Jeff, I'm a bit overweight so the exercise to and from the CD player does me some good - I hope

ATB Rotf

"embraced the future"?! ha ha.

I can see the convenience factor, and would entertain that it might even sound pretty good with some effort/the right kit.

I have to note, though, that anything that demands I spend more time maintaining a computer of win/open source/mac basis than I currently do in my spare time is simply not going to happen.

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Anderson:
... we all need goals

Jeff A

None more so than Ipswich Town when the football seasons starts next Saturday.

ATB Rotf

Flying pigs, rocking horse poo, honest MPs, etc more likely than that happening!

Mind you Reading could easily fall down this coming season.

Jono

I've just started doing this and it's all under construction (borrowed amp, headphones due today etc) but...

I store music on my PC, mostly lossless CD rips apart from a few lossy downloads. The PC is in the hall running long DVI/USB cables to the monitor, keyboard etc so there's no noise issue. I use foobar2000 as a player to get advanced DSP effects e.g. Bauer Binaural processing for headphones or EQ for my dodgy left ear.

Music goes ove S/PDIF to an Audio Synthesis DAX Discrete, I would say the results are somewhere between CDS2 and CDS3 level. The DAC has two sets of outputs, one feeds a Haadline 2 for "serious listening" and the other a NAIT and Rega R1s for background music.

I use an SB3 through an old Roksan DAC that I already had. I also upgraded the power supply from a switched to a linear. The difference between this and my CD5x is small, but can be heard if comparing the two, but I would be hard pressed to tell which was playing if I just walked into the room. Overall, I am very impressed by what £200 gets you.