Season's Greetings folks,

I have finished using the VPI RCM fluid that came with my VPI 16.5 and made up a new batch using the VPI concentrate that Tony Lonorgan and several others use. Following the VPI instructions (for improved cleaning), I added half the concentrate to 1.5 litres of distilled water. To this I added 500ml of isopropyl alcohol to create a 25% alcohol-based fluid.

My first observation in using this alcohol-based mix was that it didn't wet very well. Whereas the water-only RCM fluid spread easily and wetted the whole record surface with minimal fluid, I found I had to pour on twice the alcohol based mix for a contiguous liquid surface.

After vacuuming the "alcoholic" records I didn't note any difference in cleanliness. Some used records I bought recently remained crackly (no visible scratches or imperfections) despite 3 cleaning cycles. I am now wondering about the effectiveness of alcohol or my cleaning technique.

I read the an earlier thread that some people use Photoflo, Windex and other additives. How do these work? In using the record scrub on the 16.5, do I just have to spread the fluid evenly around the record before vacuuming or do I really need to scrub hard? The bristles don't look nearly fine enough to make a difference at the micro-groove level.

Finally, as a multiphase strategy to record cleaning, I thought I might try the following approach.

(1) use 75/25 RCM/alcohol mix for first scrub and vacuum. This will remove any oil-based contaminants and most of the soluble crud;

(2) use 100% RCM mix for second scrub and vacuum. This should remove most of the water soluble crud;

(3) use 100% distilled water for final rinse and vacuum. To remove all traces of detergent and alcohol from the record surface.

90% of the used records I've cleaned sound good, but there are still a few where loud crackles are gratingly annoying. Do I throw these away or should I simply persevere with more cleaning cycles and other exotic chemicals?

James

Resistance is Futile

If I were you, I'd check out the disc doctor fluid. No alcohol, very kind to LP's, great brushes. Bit of a pain to use but it gets the job done with, as far as I can tell, no harm to one's LP's.

http://www.discdoc.com/lp.html

James,

I use a vpi machine (Naim dealer loaned it to me)
and I think it is great. I use the water/alcohol
fluid, one spray on each side of the record, spread the fluid with the brush, three
turns of vacuming - and the record goes out as new.

If I had to act like you suggest with the three steps - I'd prefer a dirty record...

By the way, here in Israel there is a fluid that when sprayed on a record it feels and covers the
scrathes on it - but I didn't try it yet ...

Arie

James

When you make up the solution from the VPI concentrate, distilled water and Isoprpyl alcohol also add a drop of photographic wetting agent like Mirasol, this will stop the fluid pooling on the record and give a much more even result.

Hope this helps.

Phil

James:

I have used a Nitty Gritty machine for many years with a variety of commercially available fluids. I now use a homebrew which includes minute amounts of photoflow and windex (if you would like the formula I can post it again) which is as effective as any other fluid I have tried on records. By the way I have read about a study of the effect of using alcohol on records which disputes the claim that alcohol leaches the vinyl stabilizers from the vinyl. No evidence of this leaching was discovered. I certainly have not had any problems with using alcohol on records but would not let alcohol slowly evaporate from the surface or let the record bathe in alcohol overnight.

My present method is to wash with the alcohol solution, spreading the liquid across the surface with a Nitty Gritty brush, then vacuum. The photoflow helps to spread the liquid I believe. I have found that repeated scrubbings often have little effect unless you have some visible sticky gunk which the alcohol will eventually remove (but I wouldn't buy a record in such condition actually). I then rinse once with distilled water and vacuum again. This works for most records with no visible marks but occasionally the surface will remain noisy. This is sometimes due to careless use by the record's previous owner (who probably never cleaned the record or rubbed some awful gunk onto it). Sometimes it is a manufacturer's fault - reusing vinyl with all sorts of junk mixed in (I have been told). Remember that records were in part replaced by CDs because of poor quality control of LP production. At least that was the claim - that CDs eliminated all noise (unfortunately, the music too, at first!)

Hope this helps.

Paul

hi james

i use a very basic nitty gritty. bought it used, so never had factory cleaners. what i use is distilled water, with 10%(or up to 'a fifth') supermarket isopropyll alcohol and a punch(or a dash) of commercial record cleaner(i use LAST). i believe the latter is some sort of detergent. the solution doesn't bathe the vinyl surface, but that's what the brush is there for, to cover all the area!

AND it works just fine. reduces surface noise and can fix skipping records(if caused by gunk trap rather than a bad scratch). i apply LAST record preservative on every record too though, which dries completely and contrary to some warnings from other users, hasn't gunked up any cartridges so far(or yet).

this aint a precise science

ENJOY!

shahreza

I have an even simpler formula. Distilled water and a small quantity of Lux flakes. This seems to get records as clean as they can get.

Ross

Thanks for your comments, folks.

I tried my 3-step approach last night and found it more of a hassle. The noisy records, now subjected to 6 cleaning cycles, are still noisy and will be used to trade on my next lot of used purchases.

What has piqued my curiosity is the use of a wetting agent, and I shall drop my a photo-store for some me thinks.

James

Resistance is Futile

how refreshing ross!

shahreza

...go into your local camera store (i.e. a real one, with developing chemicals) and get photographic wetting agent - it should work wonders. I've only just received my VPI 16.5, and have a little of the supplied fluid left, but when it's gone, I'll be making up concentrate with the double de-ionised water, concentrate, isopropyl alcohol and a few drops of Jessops Econotol (a wetting agent I use in the rinsing of black and white films).

HTH,

John

John,

quote:

---

I've only just received my VPI 16.5, and have a little of the supplied fluid left

---

It doesn't last long, does it? I'm glad I purchased enough concentrate to make up another 2 gallons of the stuff. I find cleaning records kinda therapeutic, giving me a sense of calm as I suck those offending microscopic grit right out of my microgrooves.

James

Resistance is Futile