"The "Mana Effect" is an energizing of the component with ambient resonant energy tuned to form a narrow band amplitude spike in the audible range consisting primarily of pleasing even order harmonics off of the fundamental(known among Mana folk as "The Tone"). In essence it is just as much a special effects generator as an isolation device. I do not intend this statement to be construed as necessarily negative. It is as valid a technique to accentuate "PRAT" as the use of tubes to enhance warmth, liquidity and ambience. This energy spike is one reason that Mana gives the impression of increased loudness, dynamics (macro variety) and rhythmic drive. The effect is quite enticing and on gear that tends toward the listless can be very beneficial. It has a side effect though - smearing of note decay and confusion of harmonic structures. At the basic level the effect is a bit crude and pushy and is reminiscent of old DBX dynamic expansion devices with a pumping action that can be heard. As one proceeds in the process of phasing (addition of levels of Soundstages, Flattops, etc) the floor borne energies are reduced with each level and at approximately Phase 4 and higher, the main source becomes primarily that of air borne vibrations. It is here that Mana comes into it's own with a degree of refinement that can be quite intoxicating and pleasurable, particularly for those with a penchant for Rhythmic and Dynamic qualities(Naim folk are particularly affected positively). What I in particular like about Mana is the intelligence and quality in producing the metal framework and spiking though that alone is of fairly insignificant audible gain over conventional devices such as Target, etc. What sets Mana apart from all the others is their modular system approach to stacking (phases) which with each added layer lowers floor borne intrusion and allows the stand and shelving an easier job of controlling the components internal resonant behavior."

Fascinating stuff--hope everyone is ready for the debate to follow !

Cheers,

Bob

The author's desription of the audible effect does not at all match what I am hearing. The gains I've perceived have little to do with dynamics, pace or perceived loudness. Instead, music seems clearer, more textured, more lyrical, coherent and relaxed--alas, anything but pounding one over the head. I suspect the person who sent you the message has never heard a Mana rack. Either way, his conjectures about how it is producing its "effect" are rendered completely meaningless to me by the fact that what he is describing in the perceptual realm (changes in the music one hears) bears very little resemblance to what the rack does in my system (with P9 or CDX).

If you are so interested in this, why not just try some Mana? In fact, given the refund policy in the US and UK, I don't think anyone has an excuse ;-)

Vuk.

P.S. If I did not know better, I'd suspect you were the troll. It really is confronational to post a message obviously designed to provoke people, especially one you received from an anonymous author.

Remember the Award Winning thread on how Mana works a few weeks back? Given that, Bob's post seems in bounds to me. And I'm betting that a long discussion about Mana will NOT ensue in this thread.

- GregB
Freedom is not in finding the Holy Grail but in stopping the search for it

What I object to here is the author's completely innacurate portrayal of the Mana effect (Oand I mean what one hears, not how it works)--which leads me to suspect he's never heard the stand and is simply trying to wind people up. If anything, his description of fast and dynamic is more in line with what Naim gear does, so if you think his theory is interesting, perhaps you could contemplate it with regard to Naim boxes.

Anyhow, what I'm doing right now is precisely the aim of the troll.

Vuk.

Vuk.

Didn't mean to set Vuk off. Nobody hiding under the bridge, folks, just Neill passing along some first-hand information which seems sincere, useful and trustworthy. My guess is that this person, for reasons of his own (in the industry?) chooses to remain anonymous, especially to a loudmouth like me. (I blab all over Audio Asylum, to which I was committed by my audio doctor.) As I said, this guy had been reading my remarks about Aurios on AA, heard me ignorantly compare them with Manas, and wanted to straighten me out.

You all are free to evaluate this report as you like, but I do think it's "straight" and that the author is speaking from first-hand experience. If I were a student of the game rather than just a consumer like the rest of us, I'd probably order up a bunch to see for myself. But I've already invested in four sets of Aurios which are doing fine, so I'll leave the Great Comparison to somebody else, with more time and money

quote:

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The "Mana Effect" is an energizing of the component with ambient resonant energy tuned to form a narrow band amplitude spike in the audible range consisting primarily of pleasing even order harmonics off of the fundamental.

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...are great if you're an instrument made of metal or glass, but it's a shame to be wooden...or hollow.

Dave Dever, NANA

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/g_knott/elect81.htm

- GregB
Freedom is not in finding the Holy Grail but in stopping the search for it

Can we appoint someone "emporer" and use the thumb up / down icons in their old imperial context? Or perhaps Murray Walker would like to commentate?

(snigger)
Jonathan

Today, I have just taken delivery and assembled a small Mana platform.

My CDX was mounted on top of the Vuk MDF/ball bearing / nut contraption inside a very heavy solid oak wall unit. Vuk's contraption certainly improved the sound and I was more than happy with the result and the CDX was so good that I have also ordered a Supercap to bolt on to the 82 and the two redundant Hicaps will now go into system number two in the dining room.

Anyway, back to the Mana.

I found it very easy to assemble, but my early reaction, was the same as my son's, that it seemed very little for the money.

Its appearance was OK, it will never win a beauty contest but its not to bad.

The sound is the crucial test and without doubt it has improved the sound significantly. It seems to have made the music much cleaner and clearer and much more detail is coming out of the speakers.

I still cannot agree that it will make a cheap system sound better than Naim but it makes Naim sound better and it has whetted my appetite for for more high end Naim products. Naim and Mana used together is a brilliant combination.

I know this sounds daft, but both the wife and I like the appearance of Hutter, especially the cherry wood and I might buy a Hutter system with wide spacings with the Mana tables in the slots.

Anyway, thats my two penneth.

Regards

Mick......who is going to have a musical evening tonight.

I bought my first Mana kit about 6 years ago & bought some more a couple of months ago. It didn't change my life , but it did some nice things to the sound of the hi-fi.

I still feel that a change from say Hi-cap to Supercap on a pre amp is a bigger difference, but that is just my findings. YMMV.

Bob

". I suspect the person who sent you the message has never heard a Mana rack."

I would hope never to hear a Mana rack. The whole point is that the rack itself should always be inaudible, and should provide isolation to the components sited upon it from, inter alia, floor and airborne vibrations.

Try this experiment: put your speakers on long leads and try the equipment in a different room, both with and without the mana rack, and see if it still does the same thing!

Cliff
Trainee Perl Hacker

After some 12 years of suffering serious hifi-sickness I think there is no such thing as a false, wrong or inaccurate description of sonic effects or 'results'.

Take the 'A5 vs. all other cables' discussion for instance. Something like 95% of the Naim owners seem to swear by the A5 while it cannot convince me at all. NO I'm don't want to start this discussion again, just an example!

Anyway, I've posted some of my thoughts and experiences on the rack subject (not just Mana) on the "Mana or wooden table" thread.

Richard.

quote:

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should provide isolation to the components sited upon it from, inter alia, floor and airborne vibrations

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Cliff.

You've obviously been away too long and not doing your homework. Even well before I got Mana, when I was making my own stuff, I knew that it was as important to allow the component to dissipate vibration as it was to isolate it. Eventually, I realised that dissipation is actually more important.

It's unfortunate that you've been banned for life because I know think a Naim system is a huge waste of money without Mana racks--at least that's how I feel about mine.

Vuk.

"I know (sic) think a Naim system is a huge waste of money without Mana racks--at least that's how I feel about mine."

I personally could not disagree more !

Cheers,

Bob

Mick I would make sure you get a decent dem before buying a combination of Hutter and Mana. I heard a Townsend siesmic sink on my Hutter and although it improved some HiFi aspects it wrecked the timing and musicality of the system (the SS was under the 82) very very bad indeed.

I think most of the stands out there have differing characteristics and a cobinaton may give you the worst of both worlds. I know comparing a SS + Hutter to Hutter + Mana isn't comparing like with like but Ihink it is food for thought.

Cheers

Jason

PS. I was amazed at the reaction to your "Ugliest bugger at the show" comment on the other forum, I think you should be wary as that sort of sense of humour bypass seems common to the devottes of the angle iron ... ;-

Jason ,nice to see you back, where have you been ?

I heard the Naim / Hutter set up at the show and it was good, it really got the music out of the CD5 . So there chances are that before much longer I will get some Hutter because the Wife would do her nut with Mana because of the appearance. Also she likes Hutter, she thinks it looks "nice".

I think the Mana / Hutter thing is too much belts and braces, but it is a thought.

I really do have to make up my mind, its either the current wall unit with lots of little Mana tables hidden away or bite the bullet and replace it with Hutter.

Regards

Mick

I think you & I have reached the same cross roads with equipment supports. I too have a bit of a mix of supports including some Mana.

My short list is either all Mana or Hutter.

I would like to hear Hutter in my home before I commit though. Is there a dealer network for the product yet? I've worked out that I need about
1400 UKP's worth, so I have got to get this right.

My fear is that Hutter might just get a bit too controlled & loose that tingle factor. Jason?

Bob