I am thinking of playing around with some subwoofers in order to get the best sound from my system without spending big bucks.

One of the subwoofers that comes into my notice is the HSU Research VTF-3 HO Subwoofer. However, after having read the HSU subwoofer owner manual, I am still not quite sure what would be the best way to connect the subwoofer.

My system is 252+Supercap+500+SBL.

Hoping to hear from some Name+Subwoofer experts out there.

quote:

Originally posted by imperialline:
Hoping to hear from some Name+Subwoofer experts out there.

Ooops, wrong spelling. Should be Naim instead of Name!

Try your make of Subwoofer site.
They might be of help.
The n/sub would be your best bet though.

quote:

Originally posted by munch:
Try your make of Subwoofer site.
They might be of help.

I doubt if the HSU Research people have ever heard of Naim and know what are required to set things up correctly. After all, they make the subwoofers for Sony, Yamaha receivers, etc. Having said that, their subs seem to be very good value for money and enjoy good reviews. Some users even claim that they are as good as the REL strata III and 5.

quote:

The n/sub would be your best bet though

I know that nSub would be ideal but in here in the US, but it would cost ~3,880 USD + 400 USD for the SUBLINE cable. Maybe REL sub is a better bet or I sell the SBLs and buy another pair of speakers.

quote:

Originally posted by imperialline:
However, after having read the HSU subwoofer owner manual, I am still not quite sure what would be the best way to connect the subwoofer.

Having also read the manual - I find:
"Method C. Connecting to controllers with PRE-OUTs.
If you do not have a SUBWOOFER or LFE output but have an extra PRE-OUT, you can use this instead of the speaker outputs. Run a stereo RCA interconnect from your PRE-OUT to the left and right inputs on the subwoofer."

which sounds like a good plan. You should NOT, without consulting Naim, try to use a high level connection from a NAP 500.

The lead from the power supply signal out to the sub should probably be "padded" (have a resistor of specific value inline).
Such a lead is available from Naim.

I would be VERY wary of adding an unsuitable sub to a system such as yours. "Extra" bass cannot just be added like pepperoni - it needs to integrate with the very fine bass reproduction which your SBLs (with 500) should be providing.

As an ex subwoofer user, all I can say is that a cheap subwoofer wont give you very low bass (very low bass opens the soundstage).

I'll add that front end improvements, pre-amp or source, will give a bigger bolder presentation.

I ran my subwoofer low level off a spare hiCap output, which picked up lots of fridge switching. Using a hi level feed from the speakers gave a better result.

These days, many specialist subwoofer manufacturers assume that the sub will be used with bass management, that the speakers wont be run full range.

regards

Peter

FYI, I have obtained an official response from HSU technical support:

"The best way is to connect from the additional signal output on the Supercap to the left and right inputs on the HO. Note that the main speakers will be running full-range this way unless you add our HPF between the Supercap and your main amp."

Their info is consistent with what was previously said by Adam. However, I am a bit concerned about the use of a HPF between the SC and the 500. Does it make sense to you Adam?

I would of course be very careful about the component matching, I just would like to do some experiment, if this does not work I could use it for my HT system.

quote:

Originally posted by imperialline:
Note that the main speakers will be running full-range this way unless you add our HPF between the Supercap and your main amp."

However, I am a bit concerned about the use of a HPF between the SC and the 500. Does it make sense to you Adam?

No - a VERY good way to throw away quality in a (possibly misguided) attempt to get more bass. I would advise you consider the present cost of your system and budget accordingly for a sub with multiple inputs and adjustable cut-off frequency, volume, phase, etc. Quite like the N-Sub.

The N-Sub is marginal with the SL2s - overcook the settings and you get a whole world of pain. (Or - "a tsunami of flatulent bass" copyright C. Frankland, perhaps).

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
I would advise you consider the present cost of your system and budget accordingly for a sub with multiple inputs and adjustable cut-off frequency, volume, phase, etc. Quite like the N-Sub.

The N-Sub is marginal with the SL2s - overcook the settings and you get a whole world of pain. (Or - "a tsunami of flatulent bass" copyright C. Frankland, perhaps).

Thanks Adam. So N-Sub it is, sounds like a good plan.

TRY before you buy (anything).

The nsub is an ideal match and works brilliantly. Anyone who can afford a 500 should not be baulking at the relative cost.

Nigel

Leave it in the box, unconnected, at the store.

Your system will sound very good after this and there will be little chance of damage to your system, ears, timing, or bank balance.

If you must get a sub, the n-Sub is (sigh) the only sensible choice.

Or avoid hours of dicking around and try some SL2s. They deliver LOADS of bass on a 500.

quote:

Originally posted by joe90:
Or avoid hours of dicking around and try some SL2s. They deliver LOADS of bass on a 500.

Do the SL2s work well for a listening room > 6,000 cubic feet?

SBLs seemed to sound great to me when I was London but in a typical American living room here in the West Coast, they just do not deliver!

I suppose it depends on what you mean by 'deliver'.

If you mean they 'play music in a sublime fashion unlike any speaker at the price', then yes, they deliver.

If you mean 'do they rip the paint off the walls like the local homey's 22" woofers in his lowered dub-dubbed chevy', then no.

For that you would need DBLs.

Thanks joe90. I see what you mean.

I think if my wife let me part ~$10,000, I will have lots of choices at this price range.

6000 cubic feet eh.

Big room.

What's the floor area?

Just get the DBL.

Sorted.

quote:

Originally posted by joe90:
6000 cubic feet eh.

Big room.

What's the floor area?

Roughly 500 sq. ft but with a very high ceiling and open space to another family room/kitchen and upstairs, kind of very typical here. So this is the trouble, unless I convert one of the bedrooms for music listening.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:
Just get the DBL.

Sorted.

I know but with no disrespect to Naim engineering, are they really worth it, frankly speaking? Or should I blame the high price of Naim gears on weak dollars.

DBLs are worth it. If you like what they do.

I think you'll be throwing good money after bad trying to add subs - to me they only increase the quantity of sound, not the quality.

In big open-plan rooms I feel that it is good to focus on the immediate listening area only, as the rapidly reducing sound pressure over distance is nigh impossible to compensate for.

So the question is, what size is the immediate listening area?