My findings with the TK Rua:

1K only - Rather in one's face, detailed and tuneful but a tad splashy, difficult to settle to as it's a bit too much for me. "Hi-Fi" - oh yes!
500R only - This is better, sweeter, cleaner, punchy, energetic and tuneful. Detailed. Less Hi-Fi more music.
470R only - Better still, more tuneful, everything flows better than before, excellent dynamics and punch. Everything seems to be in sharper focus than before. Every one just seems to be playing better!
390R only - It's slower, a bit restrained, polite. Nice, but not that nice. It seems to do pretty much everything the 470R does but less so - I'm not as keen as with the 470R, but this could possibly help if one has a rather strident sounding system. Dare I say an Olive system with IBL's in a bright room?... If you get my drift! Still very tunefull but just has lost it for me. Note to self..... must try something between 390R and 470R.
330R only - Flatter, slower, restrained, less musical - heading in the wrong direction here.
270R only - Flatter still, slower, a bore.
220R only - Didn't bother.

Adding capacitance: Well, I tried all three loadings on the 500R and 470R and the results were very consistant: The more you add the warmer, veiled, stodgier and thicker the sound gets. I'd say anyone wanting to try this should restrict themselves to the 1nF as any more seems OTT to me!

My findings with the XV1-s loadings were exactly as with the TK Rua in as much as easily the best results were obtained with the 470R with the 500R following some way behind. However, the XV1-s performance was really in a different league to the dear old TK Rua. I really couldn't believe just how much of a difference the Superline was showing me between these two different cartridges. The Superline is a truly remarkable phono stage and when listening recently I was minded to remember that I perhaps rashly compared the differences I heard between the Prefix and Superline to the differences heard when comparing the 252 to the 552 in a recent Forum posting! Well, no, in retrespect I may have been rash, but I don't think I was wrong at all. The Superline realy has moved the bar up not by inches, but by yards (not centimetres but by meters for those metric one's amongst us).

I used a selection of music from the following albums:

Grace Jones, Nightclubbing.
Norah Jones, Come Away with me.
Massive Attack 100th Window.
FGHW
John Lee Hooker, The Healer
Simple Minds, Street Fighting Years.
Susanne Vega, Solitude Standing
Stone Roses, The Second Comming.
Rush, A Farewell to Kings.
Pink Floyd, Final Cut
And a couple of others that now escape me!


System used for most of the evaluations: Superline, SNAXO Burndy, Supercap, 552, 300 and Kudos C20's

The turntables: LP12, Keel, Ekos Se, Akiva, Lingo 2. LP12, Aro, Heavy counterweight, Dynavector TK Rua and XV1-s with Armageddon.


I hope you find these observations useful and can use them as a guide within your systems.

Kind regards,

Peter

P.S. Why did I use the C20's? Well, practicality and I like them alot, they were easier to set back up in the demo room following customer demonstrations than say SL2's. The rest of the equipment was left warmed up on two Fraims for the entire duration of the test's.

Thanks very much for your kind words guys However, it is a labour of love so I'd be doing it anyway!

quote:

Originally posted by dsteady:

We used the 500R and 1nF primarily with the TKR. Connon also had a Transfiguration Orpheus which was very nice, but didn't - for me - quite justify the cost doubling over the TKR. Perhaps it'll respond better to a different loading. The Orpheus may have been more tuneful in some instances, but the TKR seemed to carry greater emotion, as well as having a sort of expansiveness that I find I like. The TKR and C20s are a great match.
daniel

Hi Daniel,

I can understand your cap loading with the TKR when using the 500R, as with the 500R the TKR's presentation was a tad brighter and more forward than with the 470R.... with this load I didn't feel I needed any cap loading plugs in place as the internal loading sounded great.

Both 500R and 470R were wonderful musically and I just wanted to sit back and enjoy the music rather than get on with the listening tests in hand....Ho, hum However, IMHO it really clicks with the 470R!

Certainly the 430R test plug I have arriving soon will be an interesting comparison against my current TKR & XV1-S favorite, the 470R!

Glad you like your C20's and now see if you can lay your hands on a 470R!

Kind regards,

Peter

Can the Superline suitable for MM cartridge? Please advise the loading if it can be used (Rega-Exact, output: 6.8~7.2mV).

Thanks n rgds,
Randy

No MC only IFAIK

OK. It's the start of my experiments:

Here are all the loading plugs that come with the SuperLine.

As Peter suggested elsewhere, apparently, you can obtain 560R and 470R Resistive plugs available upon request.

The back of the Superline.

This is the panel that wobbles. I don't recommend undo the transit screws ( x 2 ) whilst the unit is upside down. :x

Here's the system:
A non-cirkused LP12/Lingo I ( no filter )/ARO/Miyabi 47.
driving a 52 & CB 140 ( replacement for a Nait 3R )
My reference phonostage has been a 47Labs Phonocube with a double power supplies taking the advantage of its dual mono cct. ( just as the SuperLine )
So far this combination was the winner over others I have on hand. It sort of makes sense because the phonostage was specifically made for the cartridge. ( much like the Akiva/Linto thing )
Altho, I have used a Linto with the Miaybi occasically for the fone listening because much like the Stageline/Prefix, the Phonocube suffers from some RFI via a high sensitivity headfones.

Both units sit on the Mana reference top for the time being.
The Superline is powered directly off the 52 making a simple and compact. ( an extra boxes are NAHA and a CB HiCap )

None of the new *fancy* cables are used. Every cables are stock. They do make a worthwhile difference but since I am using a stock cables on the Phonocube, I am keeping them the same for now.


Here's my starting point for the loading.
A 220R for the resistive loading ( left ), none for the capacitive ( right ).

I am not sure if there will be a consensus in loading options even for the same cartridge since a system make up would influence greatly. Not to mention subjective preference and probably my findings will be pretty useless for anyone else. I'm probably the only one running a Sondek with a Miyabi/47.

But I am curious to find out how SuperLine does with the Miyabi 47/'Cube as well as the Phonosophie No.3 with the Akiva/Linto.


Nothing else it would be fun for me.

Preliminary Findings:

I have throughly geeked out for the night and I haven't even gone through all the combinations.
I stuck mainly with a 220R resistor.
My starting point was with no cap. So any impression belows are against the 220R/No cap which meant that every time I changed the plugs, I had to go back to the original setting and then do it again. ( ABA unless change was so drastic, no need to go back to it )

220R/1nF
• Even slower. The music lost all the punctuations. Note blends in. Bleh.

220R/10nF

• Slower and bland. A note sort of blend in and nothing particularly interesting going on.
• Transients are softened a bit.
• No tonal balance change. It just sounds softer

220R/5.6nF **
• A better pacing but not as good as the original setting in terms of timing.
• Much more focused than the 10nF setting.

Moving on to other Resistor plugs. I kept the cap plug empty. ( need more exploring there )

500R/No cap
• Bright!
• Quite noticeable sibilance
• Somewhat musted lower register making the bass line muddy. Sounding like a cable running on a wrong direction.
• Lose any tension or pouse in the music. Guitar plucks lose any kinda life.
• Just boring and timing is so messed up


100R/No cap
• Better than the 500R and firmer grip in the midbass but not anywhere near the control and linearity of 220R/No cap.
• Recessed midrange. No sense of immediacy or tactile feel. where's the vocalist? Too distant.


375R/No cap
Some experimental in between 220R/500R resistors.
• A bit more fleshed out than the original setting but less open
• Bass goes softer, too. Overall mellower and not enough kick for me.

So far, a 220R/No cap is still my reference point.
Against the Phonocube, it does better in terms of bass linearity and overall noise floor. It's undeniably the Naim sound we love.
The Miyabi/47 can sound rather heavy weighted on the bottom with the wrong loading or other phonostages. The SuperLine balances out and shapes up through Miyabi's frequency range nicely.

What is surprising is that it images further back than the 'Cube. I don't mind a bit more of a forward midrange and image presence particularly for the vocals. I realise that this is partially due to the WATT 6 where the midrange is recessed compared to Naim speakers or other UK monitors.

I like the organic natural feel the Phonocube creates with the Miyabi/47. I would like to see a bit of that from the current setting.
To be continued...

Records Used
Unlike Julian H's list, the records I used are not well-recorded except the Art of Noise. But those are the tunes I enjoy listening over and over for a comparison.

Michael White: the X Factor

Jose Feliciano:Self Titled

Ramsey Lewis: Les Fleurs

Art of Noise:Below the Waste

I must say that by now, I can change those plugs blind in a second.

Just for fun…….

If you plug in two resistive load plugs simultaneously to two values combine to give a new value.

Load plug combinations:
1k and 500R = 333R
1k and 220R = 180R
1k and 100R = 91R
500R and 220R = 153R
500R and 100R = 83R
220R and 100R = 68R

Note:
1. 1k and 500R is the same as 500R and 1k etc
2. Obviously there will be no space left for capacitor load plugs.
3. Here's the maths, 500R and 220R = 1/(1/500)+(1/220) = 153R
.

Summary - so far

Nice chart - Very useful.

Additional information for Dynavector 17D3 users following an install on Wednesday: I found a 500R + 1nF worked better than a bare 470R no cap as it was just as musical but a little sweeter and a little fuller in the lower registers which suited the customer's system. - LP12/Aro/Dynavector 17D3/Geddon/552/300/SL2s.

Kind regards,

Peter

I imagine that there will be some differences in SuperLine loading requirements between the same cartridge - but in different arms (cabling).

Adam/Steve Sells

Thanks for the table; very useful

packerman - might I suggest you get hold of a 560R plug. When I had a Benz LP, the difference between the S and K Prefix was significant, the K being much better. 560+1 will give you the nearest equivalent to the old K spec.

Julian

quote:

If you plug in two resistive load plugs simultaneously to two values combine to give a new value.

I also tried this after talking to Naim USA and it does work well, in my case 220//500 = 153 ohms which is what I was looking for. Will try the other combinations at the weekend.

Jeremy

How do you plug 2 resistives in together?

quote:

Originally posted by 110dB:
If you plug in two resistive load plugs simultaneously to two values combine to give a new value.

If the capacitance is in the ballpark - you could use combinations of 2 resistive loads to refine your setting. When you have determined your preference - a single plug (of the combined value) could be made up by your retailer.

Of course - the provided values are likely to be perfectly suitable for most users.

Damn - just edited your post (out of existence) rather than quoted it.

It probably (?) would have gone with a future "trim". Says he.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Adam Meredith,

quote:

Originally posted by BigH47:
How do you plug 2 resistives in together?

Howard, you can use a resistive plug in the capacitive socket - the only problem then is you have no space for the cap load plug if required. However, once you have a resistive value that gives you optimum sound using 110dB's table above, you could then get the two loads combined in one plug via one's Naim dealer. You could then have the capacitive socket free again.

The good thing is.... That with a thread like this building a pool of infomation for everyone to use. I can tell you that if you have a Dynavector or a Linn cartridge, it's isn't going to work as well as the higher values around 500R +/- a bit, as I reported the findings on the 330R and 390R earlier in the thread. Thus saving you some time and effort.

The table as shown above will eventually have lots of "best" suggested loads for a wide variety of cartridges, saving everyone some time and effort in getting the very best sound from their Superline. Those that still want to experiment for themselves of course, still will be able to do so.

Kind regards,

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:
[i][color:BLUE]Damn - just edited your post (out of existence) rather than quoted it.

LOL Adam.
At least you've fessed up publicly.

quote:

Originally posted by Cymbiosis:
Howard, you can use a resistive plug in the capacitive socket - the only problem then is you have no space for the cap load plug if required. However, once you have a resistive value that gives you optimum sound using 110dB's table above, you could then get the two loads combined in one plug via one's Naim dealer.

Wish I'd got Kuma to say that for me.

I can't even spell correctly!
I just re-read what I wrote and I admit spelling and grammar errors are appalling. How embarrassing.

Anyways, continuing on this evening, I have went through fitting two resistors together suggested by 110dB above.

There were no clear winner but as the lower the value, I've heard a weighter and somewhat bloated overall presentation. Everything seemed loaded downwards and sounded too heavy for my taste.

1k/500R=333R setting was good in the midrange and grooved along nicely but it was a tad bright on the top end. Maybe this is where I could use one made and try a separate cap as most instances adding on a capacitive value smooths out the trebles. ( 1nF would be sufficient, I'd reckon )

So, I went back to the 220R/No Cap again. ( after all that! ). Then what a heck, I decided to try No plugs on it.

Instantly I've gained more midrange presence which is missing from the current setting. The bass is weighter but still firm. Overall it has more natural feel to it. It has a different feel than a 220R /No cap setting, but I think I'm gonna keep it a while longer.
And I will go back to the 220R/No cap again to see.

Overall, I am amased how well it's doing even off a 52! ( it's actually competing well with a Phonocube at almost twice the price )

Just a quick comment on the use of two resistive loading plugs on the rear of the SuperLine–the DIN-5 180° socket for capacitance loading is directly wired in parallel with the 50Ω BNC and WBT nexgen RCA phono sockets; the DIN socket for resistive loading is wired in parallel with the capacitive loading socket.

I'm just taking a guess here, but this is probably an intentional arrangement, which permits the capacitive loading to perform optimally (Steve Sells, please chime in!) as per the owners' manual. However, it may be advantageous to, when not using a capacitive loading plug, to try a single resistive plug in the capacitive socket–or, when using two resistive loading plugs, to assess whether there is a difference between loading the higher value into the right (capacitive) position (or vice versa).

Should these things matter? On the surface, no–but there are always plenty of surprises in this strange hobby.

I'll likely take this out on a Te Kaitora Rua sometime later in the (next) week.

Hi Steve

The eqiuvalent to K configuration is achieved by using the 560ohm and 1nF plugs. The 560ohm plug is a special request item so make sure your dealer has organised that for you.

Start there then try the other plugs that come in the box and please report your findings back here for other Transfiguration owners.

Good luck, Julian