Hi Julian, sorry to hear of your frustrations. I have the 52 too like yourself and had a lot of trouble with the HiLine. BUT As I reported briefly on another thread I have however ended up with one!! let me explain.

I tried the HiLine on three occasions during a demo period and decided that it was very nice at some things but lacked drive. The very night before I was due to return it I gave it one more go - nearly fell out of the chair as all of a sudden it had both the cohesion and delicacy and drive. hmmmm.

I have concluded, and after discussion with Peter, that the hiline can be a bit of a bugger to get to work as it should particularly with the older gear. with my 52 the plug is VERY tight.

There are a lot of moving targets for you as the superline changes character a lot during burn in and you have all the other new gear too. Personally I would not bother with the centre pin experiment as you loose drive.

Weird old game this.

All the best

Gaz

quote:

with my 52 the plug is VERY tight.

My understanding is that you can have newer DIN sockets fitted to accommodate a HiLine better.

Gaz

I had noticed that you finally went with the HiLine when you mentioned it on another posting. I did go back and forth vs the standard IC several times but remained unconvinced.

I supposed I hae just saved some money towards a Powerline for the Lingo2?

J

quote:

Originally posted by Julian H:
576+1 – the new star for the Akiva? More natural, alive, free, purposeful. The improvement over the 560+1 is not subtle.

As a result of the above I have decided to build some more plugs myself. I now need to try and find out where to get the right resistors! Perhaps some with values around 576?
Julian

Interesting to see that your listening tests have produced very similar comments overall and with the 576R plug emerging on top.

Kind regards,

Peter

Hi Peter

I can't remember exactly how you described each plugs effect but broadly, I seem to have come to the same conclusion. I must admit to having gone back and forth between 560+1 and 576+1 quite a bit at one stage trying to work out what I was hearing differently. The 560+1 is still very good and on a few tracks I thought I preferred it. However, after second/third/fourth comparisons I came back to the 576+1 on those too.

Julian

Hi Kuma, well my 52 is a very recent service (12 months) to pots 8 etc. will have to check with base and see if they did anything there. Gaz

quote:

Originally posted by Julian H:

I had noticed that you finally went with the HiLine when you mentioned it on another posting. I did go back and forth vs the standard IC several times but remained unconvinced.

I supposed I hae just saved some money towards a Powerline for the Lingo2?

J

I am powering my SuperLine with my 552. I happen to have a spare HiCap2 lying around and as such borrowed a HiLine so as to compare the SuperLine powered by a 552 vs. HiCap/HiLine.

I previously found the 552PS to be superior to a HiCap2 when powering a SuperLine. The addition of the HiLine 4/5 to the equation seemed to elevate the inferior power supply (HiCap2) to the point where it could now favorably compare with the superior one (552PS) and maybe even give it a "slight" edge - a bit more clarity - but not enough to make it meaningful or significant. The 552PS seemed to maintain its advantage of having a bit more bottom end grunt and authority. At the end of the day one would easily be happy with either alternative - as such there really is no reason for me to consider purchasing a HiLine when I am lucky enough to have the 552PS at my disposition.

I will most likely follow a similar line and use the saved monies to fund a PowerLine - hoping it will make a significant enough difference to convince me to part with some of my funds.

Gregg

quote:

Originally posted by Fozz:
well my 52 is a very recent service (12 months) to pots 8 etc. will have to check with base and see if they did anything there.

They look the same as the new ones.
My 52 also went in for the update ('97 vintage ) but sockets were not changed as I was told it's labor intensive to change over all of the input sockets.

(with clarification) ...when it's unlikely you'd have issues with fitting of a Hi-Line in every socket–one would probably need only one or two sockets replaced in the end.

The other concern relates to the length of wire from the input sockets to the PCB, relative to the heat required (especially for lead-free re-work)–more than likely, it would be better to replace these wires with a new (short, same-length) run, hence the extra labor.

Otherwise, the performance might be decreased by a sloppy, though concerted, effort to replace the sockets alone.

thanks guys, I am leaving the sockets. A previous HiLine for my DVD fit ok into the tuner socket and while things sound good I am not messing any more.

After an impromptu listening session when we made a surprise visit to Dr Peter's superline emporium (other HiFi components are also available). :-
Short version Superline + HC? + standard I/C when we arrived. 4-5 HiLine = much improvement all round. SC+HL superb. Put standard I/C back somehow lost the music became duller somehow.Sally (Mrs) noticed these changes too.
I would point out that the standard lead was still very good just the HL was that much better.
I must admit to not noycing the differences between a couple of different loading plugs , but Peter changed them very quickly, I think he was just confirming what he already knew.

quote:

Originally posted by BigH47:
After an impromptu listening session when we made a surprise visit to Dr Peter's superline emporium

I would point out that the standard lead was still very good just the HL was that much better.

I must admit to not noycing the differences between a couple of different loading plugs , but Peter changed them very quickly, I think he was just confirming what he already knew.

Howard, Yes sorry, I was mid LP12/Aro set up on Saturday when you dropped in. FYI from memory we had a 202/PSC/200 and Motive 2s in there at the time, with an HC2 dropped in to show the differences the High-Line made for you. Loading tests do take longer.

KR

Peter

JeremyB said:
"After many many hours of listening I found that any plug I try in the resistive or capacitive sockets compromises the Superline and the main effect is to mask TT setup issues. So far it looks like everything the plugs do such as reduce distortion, change timing and reduce pronounced bass etc."

I think I'm leaning the same way. I'm using a Koetsu Urushi with LP12/Armageddon/Aro & 552/300/NBLs on Fraim. Superline is powered by Supercap and connected with the Hi-Line 4-5.

I initially preferred the 220R but after a few days, I'm leaning towards no plugs.

After writing this 10 days ago.....

quote:

So, getting down to the latest experiments, Peter very kindly asked me if I’d like to try some new loading plugs to see how I got on. Of course, I accepted straight away! As I understand it, these are all factory build trials in the values 549R, 576R and 590R.

549+1 – Soft, mechanical, unnatural, compressed lack of separation between instruments.
560+1 – (my previous favoured combination). A little restrained, shut in and congested when compared to the 576+1 combination.
576+1 – the new star for the Akiva? More natural, alive, free, purposeful. The improvement over the 560+1 is not subtle.
590+1 – more detailed than the 576+1, softer, mushy, unconvincing, insipid, a lack of articulation.

I have re-tried the 560+1 combo tonight and instantly it felt inferior. Unfortunately, I will have to had the 576 back to Peter soon, so whats to do? Do I order one or do I get some resistors and experiment myself? I can't live with the 560 now that I know what the 576 does, thats for sure.

One other thing about the Superline though. I have had it since April and it still does not move me like the Prefix used too. There is none of that pumping vitality I used to love! Anyone else experience the same?

Just off to earth my SBL stands.....

Julian

Earlier this evening I handed back the Superline I had borrowed from James (Tomtom). I ended up using it with no plugs which seemed to work as well as any other combination with an AT-OC9MLII.

quote:

One other thing about the Superline though. I have had it since April and it still does not move me like the Prefix used too. There is none of that pumping vitality I used to love! Anyone else experience the same?

Can't say that i really noticed the lack of 'pumping vitality' when i first installed the SL but then again my prefix is on my lp12 and I use my avid for main system so it's hard to compare ... BUT have just added Supercap2 / 4/5 Hi-line to the SL and aside from gains in resolution, timing, soundstage etc. etc. the music does seem to have extraordinary vitality. I'm getting real sense that the dynamic range of the whole system has taken a real step forward, there's a much greater sense of immediacy compared to powering from the 552. I know it's a load of cash but I felt it was worth doing as it really seems to let the SL fly.

quote:

One other thing about the Superline though. I have had it since April and it still does not move me like the Prefix used too. There is none of that pumping vitality I used to love! Anyone else experience the same?

Having gone from Prefix "S" to Stageline "S" to SuperLine (453R + 1nF loading for XX2mkII, then Te Kaitora Rua) on LP12/NAPSA2/Aro + HICAP over the last six months, I have to say that I have never seen a phono stage that brings out the best traits of (and yet, amplifies the distinctions between) cartridges more than the SuperLine.

So much of my experience with the Prefix has been to reinforce a notion that some cartridges make a better match with the classic Naim phono circuit than others–and yet, digging out an older, show-use only Troika from some time back shows how far this new design has come.

An older-sounding but immediate, closed-down in-the-bass sense that I used to get with nearly every "K" Prefix I've used (and, trust me, I've had access to quite a few) vanishes with the SuperLine–and, on the other hand, brings out all of the character that made the Troika such an enjoyable cartridge (at standard 500R + 1nF loading). It is both relaxed and vital, detailed but not "shouty", in a manner that reminds me of the difference between the NAC552 and the NAC52!

Also–and on a purely musical axis, the SuperLine pulls intricate, perhaps delicate rhythmic musical elements off records I've known exceptionally well for years, on a 'table whose character I know well, at a completely different level, even on crap pressings that are clearly third- or fourth-generation masters–it simply renders the musical information through the layers of dynamic or tonal "affect" (with an "A").

It also makes me quite interested in experimenting with (funds permitting) more upscale AND perhaps more economical alternatives (e.g., XV-1s, which had never seemed to provide the performance I'd expected for the $$$ on the old "S" Prefix, apologies to Mark Dunn), differences between which might have been concealed by the character of the older phono circuit.

I'd also be interested in trying some more "coloured" alternatives, to enjoy what they bring to the table without the phono circuit getting hung up by fixed R or C loading–an experience similar to what many have described by running, for example, sub-optimal but enjoyable sources into the NAC552 and being surprised by the results.

David

So are you saying that you agree with me, disagree with me or you maybe sort of understand where I am coming from?

J

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:
I'd also be interested in trying some more "coloured" alternatives, to enjoy what they bring to the table without the phono circuit getting hung up by fixed R or C loading–an experience similar to what many have described by running, for example, sub-optimal but enjoyable sources into the NAC552 and being surprised by the results.

David,

What does this mean?

Can one change the loading capsules whilst playing a record (as you can with one ot two transformers)?

An observation on the PREFIX was that it was surely the only phono stage that eliminated the arm lead as far as I recall. This has to be beneficial in not only reducing signal loss but elimination RFI and obviating any potential colourations.

No doubt the Superline, among other stages, is superior to this rather dated but entirely innovative design. However, in this 'close-coupled' respect, the SL is a retrograde step.

I wonder if it can be fitted with a captive lead with the appropriate ARO or SME plug.