Hi there-- i am new to this forum. I have been amazed by all the excellent reviews of the Neat Motive 2 speakers. Don't get me wrong. I think they are beautifully balanced, articulate and musical speakers but i find they distort and break up when the volume gets high. I listen to blues and jazz mostly and have been so annoyed by this that i am in the process of selling them? When i listen to Ray Brown's acoustic bass and a moderatly loud level i get a THWACK sound as the woofer is clearly bottoming out. I never had this problem with my Totem sttafs and could experience this on the arros but at significantly higher volumes than the motive 2s. This has been painfully frustrating as i love the sound but like louder volumes. I admit my amp has bee either a naim nait 5 original or a simaudio 5080i(solid 80wpc) Both amps have clean power but either the speakers cant take it, the ampsre both cliping or i am clealry going deaf. Has anyone else found this? I will be buying the totem hawks next week as i have had enough!--Ken

Sttafs are much larger speakers than Motive 2s and Arros, so what you are exeriencing is just the limitation of small speakers.

If you like LOUD, try Neat Momentum 3is. BIG SOUND!

Also make sure your source is up to the job.

Loudly amplified crap is still crap.

I appreciate the point about the source! I may be listening to loudly amplified crap. My source is the weak link-an older Rotel RC971 that has been modded but certainly compromised in relation to current players.(Mind you it did fine with the totems) Perhaps it is also a limitation of a small speaker in a fairly large room-Thanks

The efficency, according to the web, of those speakers is
Neat Momentum 2 85db
Totem Arrow 87db
Totem Sttaf 88db.

This means that for a given power input, the Staff's will be, subjectively, about twice as loud as the Momentum 2s. 85db is quite inefficient so they were never going to be loud unless they were with a very powerful amplifier.

Hey Totemlover

Before jumping out of the wee Motives, investigate a Naim CD player like a CD5x - a much bigger sound.

More information is better than less...

No amount of better CD/amp etc is going to cure the problem with Motive 2's bottoming out!! What you are experiencing is the limitation of the loudspeaker mid bass unit which when driven to 'loudish' levels can and often does bottom out, causing a large crack sound which frightens the sh.. out of the unsuspecting listener.

A couple of years ago i had a very nice new pair of Motive's which indeed were very well balanced and nice to listen to at moderate levels, however when the music had any bass and at my particular listening levels, which are normal to many, they bottomed out...... causing a loud crack, which as i understand is the cone hitting the back of the cradle (or something like that). Finally after four new pairs and a rather frustrated dealer, i had a refund.

The dealer later informed me that Neat had made some changes to sort the problem which of course they may have, but i had lost all faith. At the time i was driving them with a 252/300 but the dealer had problems with just about any Naim amp.

Regards,

Gary.

Presumably, this issue doesn't affect the Ultimatum-type driver unit?

When I auditioned staffs I noticed they had lot's of throw. They really moved in and out a lot with no bottoming. Enough that the sound seemed to waver in the mid and upper regions. So i didn't like the sound in the end. It seems that they would deal with loud volumes better. Any way that was not with NAIM. I found when I put my nait2 they had better control so I am a bit surprised you have this trouble but perhaps the neats just aren't made that way. Or perhaps amp and source could improve this issue as it did for me. Sometimes I miss the old cerwin vega's.

But it would seem that you need a speaker that can be pushed harder without this. For me that was meadowlarks very nice kestrel hot rod ( no longer in business).

best of luck

Ken

Gary--Thankyou! You made my morning.I have been wondering if i am near deaf and playing the little speaks to hard or if they really are too easy to overdrive. Frankly i dont think i am playing them much louder than any other speaker i have had around. I really think that despite some fantastic design the bass driver is the limitation. One of the nicest midranges i have ever heard....but very limited excursion. I used to build speakers(a brief hobby) and as i examined the neat speaker more closely i see that the woofer is a Peerless unit. It might be custom designed although it looks exactly like those listed on Madisound and solen electronique in Canada /usa. The woofers excursion is somewhat limited. The response looks amazingly flat with limited bass response and very inexpensive -28.00!!(as compared to the very expensive and excellent Neat modified Focal tweeters) The quoted F3 in a ported box is much higher than the Neats 38hz! So i wonder if the little speaker is being asked to perform way beyond it manufactured comfort range--hence the bottoming out. I love the speaker but really have to give up on it because of my louder listening levels for some music.What shocks me the most is that the raw driver sites show the Peerless driver at a cost of 28.00! in a 2300.00 speaker(CDN)Perhaps theirs is a custom unit. The driver in my Totem can be purchased from Scanspeak for around 175.00!! I would imagine thaty the Neat Motive 3 speaker performs well and perhaps better than the 3 in relation to breakup? It is not being asked to go as low in the bass and will likely play louder without the woofer hitting its end stop. Pwerhaps i should look at that before i say goodbye to the Motive speakers. Sadly i dont think they will have enough lower bass for me. Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by Sunnyside:
Presumably, this issue doesn't affect the Ultimatum-type driver unit?

mine go loud effortlessly.

quote:

Originally posted by gordon cavanaugh:

quote:

Originally posted by Sunnyside:
Presumably, this issue doesn't affect the Ultimatum-type driver unit?

mine go loud effortlessly.

As do mine (I have the Elite SE with the upgraded Ultimatum driver). Never heard it 'bottom out', and goes stupidly loud for me. Great speaker.

I have no doubt that all the other Neat speakers go loud effortlessly, however Ken was asking specifically about Motive 2's!

Hi Ken,
I had exactly the same issue with my fantastic Motive 2 speakers. I contacted Bob at Neat and told me this was likely because speakers had reached their limit. Bottoming-out can damage the drivers so it is better to avoid it. I also have this effect with aocustic bass in several Patricia Barber's recordings. With other instruments/music I can go louder safely.
Motive 2 are great but they seem to have a very sweet spot volume interval. Very low I think they are a bit too laid-back, but between 8:30 and 9:30-10:00 they sound plenty of life with a very dynamic sound. I haven't noticed any distortion at high volumes, but maybe this is because I have concrete floor and decent room acoustics . Bass is taut and defined.

Interesting, mine do that too! I thought it was clipping but only really happens in one channel when bass kicks in so I presume it is the 'bottoming out' feature. Yes you are right it is annoying as the rest is soooo good
Dave

quote:

Originally posted by gary yeowell:
I have no doubt that all the other Neat speakers go loud effortlessly, however Ken was asking specifically about Motive 2's!

i answered sunnyside's question not ken's.

Yes small speakers are small, but don't mistake low power handling with small sound.

They're quite different things.

A cheap source will result in a flat, dimensionless, dry and closed-in sound, regardless of the type of speaker you use.

So get your priorities straight - if you really want loud, get PA bins and a pro power amp and run an ipod. Cheap and excruciatingly loud.

If you want class, finesse, detail and music-making ability, don't put the speaker first.

Get the source right - and balance it all up for the right result.

If the speaker is too small, well get a bigger speaker, like a Motive 1, or stick with the Sttafs.

Running a Rotel CD player on high-end amps and speakers is like running a bumble bee under the bonnet of a Ferrari.

Joe, you seem to be missing the point a bit, it's not about the source nor is it about the size of the speaker, just that it plays plenty loud on some tracks and then you get a suprise wack when a bit of bass kicks in. It would appear to be a design fault and I shall be seeing if there is something that can be done about it as it is annoying!
Dave

We use the volume control to make the sound bigger, more real.

If the system is unable to produce the requisite bigness, then we have a problem.

It isn't caused by the speaker in the first instance, it's caused by the fact that there isn't enough info from the get go.

It's a much more advanced concept compared to simply blaming the speaker, though I'm sure it isn't helping matters.

The user is simply asking too much of the SYSTEM. The proper solution would be to move to a better system that provides more information, rather than installing the audio equivalent of fat tyres.

i agree. if it plays loud then on certain tracks you get to the end of the voice coils travel this needs addressing. this certainly doe not happen on my momentum 3is, they play very very loud and very very very deep with no issues at all.

quote:

Originally posted by totemlover:
Hi there-- i am new to this forum. I have been amazed by all the excellent reviews of the Neat Motive 2 speakers. Don't get me wrong. I think they are beautifully balanced, articulate and musical speakers but i find they distort and break up when the volume gets high. I listen to blues and jazz mostly and have been so annoyed by this that i am in the process of selling them? When i listen to Ray Brown's acoustic bass and a moderatly loud level i get a THWACK sound as the woofer is clearly bottoming out. I never had this problem with my Totem sttafs and could experience this on the arros but at significantly higher volumes than the motive 2s. This has been painfully frustrating as i love the sound but like louder volumes. I admit my amp has bee either a naim nait 5 original or a simaudio 5080i(solid 80wpc) Both amps have clean power but either the speakers cant take it, the ampsre both cliping or i am clealry going deaf. Has anyone else found this? I will be buying the totem hawks next week as i have had enough!--Ken

Can i ask how old you are?
Munch