What are the improvments, in detail ?

Speaking of a 32-5 based system into 140:

It sounds like you upgraded the power amp for one. MUCH deeper, tighter, and groovier bass. Much warmer, more palpable, room filling type sound. Better treble extension, much less harshness. MUCH better dynamics. And more detail. A no-brainer.

--Eric

I did this on a 72/180 after 5 years and couldn;t understand why I had waited so long! All the previous posts, and more...

I'd say about 50% more musical information I hadn't heard before (a whole new lower level of detail clearly making sense).

A sense of a lot more drive and "boogie factor", really added a crispness of timing and toe-tapping. Going back, sounded a lot more "rounded" and slower. It made the whole system sound a lot more powerful, the effect of upgrading to a much bigger power amp in another kind of system. I ultimately went to an 82/super in front of my 180 and each stage the 180 just seemed to grow more and more powerful and capable....

Really good on the timing - the way cymbal taps take on a focus and tunefulness and you understand the rhythms, the Tap tap Tap tap makes a lot more sense.

There is a significantly added sense of clarity, transparency which reveals itself in a number of ways - the musical strands and instruments seem to untangle, the musical presentation seems to "escape the speaker boxes" a lot more and grow in width, depth, a bigger sense of 3D more lifelike music.

I think a 72 is really held back by not having the hicap, it will make what you've got seem 50% more. Somehow it makes the whole system come together musically. Its a very fundamental part of the naim architecture, the systems were designed to work this way....

Very highly recommended.

You've either got to hear it or take it on faith. Personally, I don't know how one can listen to classical music through a naked 72.

1) Go to your dealer, bringing some favorite music.
2)Have the dealer demo with the hicap.
3)Listen for several minutes.
4)Have the dealer remove the hicap.
5)Listen to the same music through the same preamp.

Taking away the hicap is like someone taking away your pet.

Don't do this unless you can afford a hicap.

BTW, on good sources, the 72 is excellent, and adding a hicap to a 72 playing good source never gave me an understanding of what the hicap does. It's only when the hicap is taken away that it's importance is clear, IMO.

On normal - i.e. mediocre - source, the hicap makes the 72 wonderful. I hate to listen to normal sources through a bare 72.

Differences? Much less congestion in loud, complex passages, much more coherent sound, much better bass and detail and real-ness.

Regards.

Phil

I wonder if you think upgrading the flat to a hi is a great quality value ?

Arie

On any Naim pre-amp that I've tried this with (and I've done it with at least four), the Hi-Cap provides approximately twice the value of a Flat-Cap, which makes sense considering a Hi-Cap costs twice as much.

BTW, a regular SNAPS is about 75% of a Flat-Cap, but a SNAPS2 converted to dual rail mode is a touch better than a Flat-Cap. Therefore, if you can't afford a Hi-Cap, then find yourself an old SNAPS2 and get it converted (if it isn't already). Catch you later!

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Mike,
You 'caused to my affairs with the 72 so you have a responsibility.
What do you think about Mr Pig opinion that getting a Mana instead of a Hi (the Mana is cheaper) is a better value ?

Arie

To my ears, Mana helps reduce distortion and increase detail. However, it doesn't make a system sound "bigger" or give it more slam (although it would allow you to turn it up louder without distortion).

Since much of what an XPS does for a CDX involves detail and resolution, I'm considering getting a Mana rack for my system before an XPS for my CDX. However, I would definitely upgrade from a Flat-Cap to a Hi-Cap on a pre-amp before getting Mana. It really transforms a pre-amp.

I wasn't "satisfied" with my Naim system until there was a Hi-Cap on my 102. All of the upgrades since then have been gravy. Catch you later!

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Interestingly Mana gave my system much more slam. I guess it must do diffeent things for different setups.
Dozy

When I say "slam", I mean a big, fat, solid wall of sound. I've heard others use "slam" for what I would call "snap". That is, the sharp distintion of notes and percussive speed of the system. Mana does help that aspect.

Mana helps define and tighten, which is a very good thing. However, Mana is not a cure-all. There are many things that must be achieved through other means. Catch you later!

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Mike,
How is the sound at your new house ?

Arie

I'm not in the new house until May, and I am concerned about the wood. I've had a number of people tell me that Albions work best in a concrete room, and the room that they'll be going in is definitely not concrete. However, I had heard the Albions in at least five different locations before buying them, and they always sounded very good, so I'm hoping for the best.

The room they're going into is fairly small (12.5'x9' or 3.8x2.75m). There's also a closet (2'x4') in one corner, so it's going to be a little strange. It's shaped somewhat like this:

code:

---

   WWWWW
+---------+
| S     S |
|         |
|       EE|
|       EE|
D       --+
D    M   C|
+-FFFFF---+

---

This picture is not entirely to scale, but it gives you the idea. I've shown the first configuration I'm going to try. The speakers (S) are aiming down the room, with a bay window (W) behind them. I'm sitting (M) with my back to the french doors (F), with another door (D) to my left. The equipment (E) will be will be placed as shown, and there's a CD storage cabinet (C) in the closet (with the doors removed). I'll probably place sound absorbant material against the outside wall of the closet (beside the equipment), to prevent extra reflections.

In the end, if I can't make it sound good in this room, I can always try it somewhere else. This room is preferred, though, for a number of reasons. Catch you later!

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

I think that the closet is a good thing because I was told that a symetric room is bad for sound and if not the closet - this room seems to be too
symetric.

Arie

If you properly site your speakers, and have acceptable dampening materials here and there (to prevent early reflections, etc.) then a symetrical room sounds very good. The problem with odd shapes is that you'll get uneven reflections. For example, the sound from my left speaker will come directly at me, as well as being bounced off the left wall, ceiling and floor. The right speaker will not have right wall reflections (because I can't see that point from my sitting position), but it will bounce off the wall around the equipment rack, back to the bay window, then on to me. This may cause timing problems, etc. Therefore, I'll have to treat the room for these odd reflections (which is why I intend to put sound dampening material on the wall beside the equipment. Catch you later!

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Anyway - you have a very interesting issues for the next few month...

Arie

Mike,
A real good place to start is by making sure that all floorboards are VERY securley screwed down.
Preferably using brass screws (...overtures of the "non-ferrous" brigade appearing)

...Looking forward to when you eventually move in for all the "wooden room" follow up posts !

(I am sure that there is no need to fret...I bet it will sound just great !)

Regards
Chris

The previous owner installed new hardwood in this room and the dining room a few years back, so there will be no screws going in the floor. The floor seems solid, though, so I'm hoping for the best. Catch you later!

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

This picture was taken by the realtor back when the house when on the market. It's taken from a position just outside the french doors. It should give you better idea of how the room is configured.

I should stress that the dolls are the former owners, and not mine!!! (The whole house is decked out in that kind of trash.) Instead, I'm considering placing a large statue of a neanderthal fellow with genetalia on full display. He's holding a sword in one hand and the head of his recently vanquished oponent in the other, so it's really very exciting. It's particularly good for frightening small children. (I know, since it came form my wife's grandfather, and all of the grandchildren hated it.) Catch you later!

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Be aware that this fellow can get dizzy when seeing the Naim.

I also hope he will not be able to see the modern life out of the window - it may confuse him.

Arie

I'm not too concerned with him getting dizzy and falling over, as he appears to be quite a sturdy fellow. I'll have to bring my digital camera to work and take his picture. He's about 1m tall, solid wood, and extremely UGLY!!!

BTW, I just noticed that the floor in that picture is almost black. It's actually a dark brown, and is quite nice. Catch you later!

-=> Mike Hanson <=-