At the end of the Hutterly Amazing thread, just before some regrettable name calling etc set in, Ron suggested that Vuk, Kevin, and myself might not actually be using the correct (i.e. heaviest) counterweight for our RB900 / XX1L on our P9s. There is a picture of Vuk's deck on the above where the counterweight we all use is clearly visible. Ross B has a heavy Rega counterweight for his RB300 which he states is visibly different to ours. I simply do not have sufficient knowledge of Rega products to interpret these different findings.

We all bought our weights from the same reputable source, the dealership Frank A works for on a Saturday, this is a very respected Naim / Rega dealership, and my questions here are absolutely not intended as any slur or question about the integrity or knowledge of that dealership - they have proved very knowledgeable and helpful in any dealings I have had with them. I would however like to establish whether we do have the heaviest available weight, as if not I want one!

Perhaps the easiest way of establishing this would be to find the physical weight of the available Rega weights, and then weigh one of ours to find out which it is. The one we have has a machined groove around the circumference, and sits right at the back of it's usable travel to balance the 12 gram XX1L. It is slightly heavier than the one that comes as standard with the RB900.

Tony.

As I mentioned in the other thread, both counterweights I have are absolutely identical in appearance, including the internal rubber spiral, except that the heavy one is a few milimetres longer. According to my kitchen scales, it is also about 20g heavier - the extent I can get a consistent reading, one is 100g and the other 120g. The lighter one came with my RB300 and the heavier one was bought separately and ordered directly from Rega. The heavier one has no groove on the outside.

I understand that some OEM Rega arms use lesser quality stainless steel counterweights, and this may be what is being supplied by some dealers. For example, the Moth catalogue I have lists their Moth Incognito arm (a Rega OEM arm) with either stainless steel or tungsten counterweights, the latter being more expensive.

I too would be interested in knowing which is the real Rega counterweight.

Ross

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I understand that some OEM Rega arms use lesser quality stainless steel counterweights, and this may be what is being supplied by some dealers.

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Ross,

Thanks for weighing your counterweight, perhaps Vuk or Kevin have their crack scales handy to weigh theirs - I only buy in kilos, so my bathroom scales are no good.

The counterweight I have would appear to be made of the same tungsten as the original one supplied with the RB900. I have seen the current RB300 weight, and that would appear to be different to either of my weights.

As I understand it, the RB300 weight was made from a cheaper material at some point later on in its life span - the weight I had with my 1986 RB300 on my old Xerxes from memory looks the same as the one that ships with the RB900, it definitely does not look like a current RB300 one.

The point is that I suspect the weights are now a different design for the RB300 and the RB900 arms. I suspect the RB900 has tungsten and the RB300 now uses the cheaper stainless steel design. What age is your arm, and what material are your weights made of?

My gut feeling is this is there are far more different weights than I first thought. Age and arm model is probably a big factor. I am only really interested in current Rega manufactured weights for the RB900 arm, though as a side issue I am slightly curious about the third party 'Heavy Weight' thing from Express Machining. I would like to hear one.

Tony.

Had to re-calibrate my crack scale, but it shows 120g for the counterweight.

BTW--while reading your message, just as I was on the word "Xerxes," the radio anounncer said it at the exact same time (referring to the opera) and it felt for a second that some of the crack I dusted off had entered my system.

Vuk.

Sorry about being away so long.

I believe Tony has the heavy tungsten counterweight. This is because he describes it similarly to Vuk's. Now Vuk has both standard and heavy counterweights so he should be able to do a direct comparison, but looking at the (very nice) photo would indicate that to be the heavy weight.

The 300 is supplied as standard with stainless steel counterweight. The 600 and 900 are supplied as standard with a tungsten weight with no groove in the circumference.

To put the record straight:

The heavy counterweight has come in two versions. They're both made of tungsten. The earlier one was a little longer to look at, though perhaps not as large a circumference (can't recall). The new one coming out of the factory now has the groove in it. This is a unique feature of the new heavy counterweight, none having had grooves in the past.

Regards,
Frank.

Did you remember to check which phono boards you're running, or did the crack dust on your counterweight take the evening in a different direction?

Joe

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The heavy counterweight has come in two versions. They're both made of tungsten. The earlier one was a little longer to look at, though perhaps not as large a circumference (can't recall). The new one coming out of the factory now has the groove in it.

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Frank.

Thanks. Now that Ross and I have also weighed ours, the convergence of evidence suggests that much of "Ron's" boasting may also have to do with issues of length and circumference.

Vuk.

I have not compared the two.

Regards,
Frank.

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Did you remember to check which phono boards you're running, or did the crack dust on your counterweight take the evening in a different direction?

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I checked, I am using the Rev 4 S boards that were recapped at the same time as my preamp. I find they sound a little bigger, freer and are more involving than my rev 3 Ks. When Vuk commented on a absolute preference for the Ks I stuck 'em in for a week to check myself - I preferred the S boards even when put in cold.

I am sure my choice may be based as much on the different revision, and the age of the caps as much as any real preference for either type. Most good dealers have boards lying around, and some are pretty much prepared to do a straight swap, so if you get a XX1L I would go and listen yourself. I have heard dealers state preference for particular revisions, one local dealer seemed to reckon rev 3 or 5 boards are better than my rev 4s - did arouse my bullshit detector a bit.

My gut feeling as it is I suspect it is only just a subtle difference in loading between the K and S boards (it is either a resistor or a cap that is different), that it is probably just in effect a bit of a tone control. Try and hear both in your system.

Tony.

I should get a pair of S boards just for completeness and to score extra FEPs. I've got an opportunity to try a couple of the Dynavectors and the U.S. DV rep himself said that most people prefer the S boards with Dynies, the XX-1L possibly being the exception.

Best to have the S boards on hand for that inevitable day an XV-1 shows up on my doorstep. Hey Frank, does Rega make an extra, extra real heavy counterweight?

Joe

Ron The Mon

Vuk.

No. Anyway, I think you'd need extra tall spacers as well. I believe they're called 'stilts' in common parlance, or is it piles?

Seriously speaking, I've not tried an XV-1 in an RB900, but I don't really think that would be an effective pairing since it's so out of spec that it would be difficult to believe the other limitations of arm and deck would not outweigh the gains of the cartridge, good though the deck is.

A Te Kaitora, on the other hand, would fit much more snugly since it's also so much lighter than an XX-1L.

Regards,
Frank.

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A Te Kaitora, on the other hand, would fit much more snugly since it's also so much lighter than an XX-1L.

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I just finished attending a 12-step program to put the Te Kaitora out of my mind -- and now you've set me back several weeks.

The XX-1L is good enough, the XX-1L is good enough, the XX-1L is good enough, the XX-1L is good enough, the XX-1L is good enough, the XX-1L is good enough...

Joe

Sincerely,
Ron The Mon

[This message was edited by Ron The Mon on THURSDAY 04 January 2001 at 23:18.]

There is also an opposite tweak: set the tracking force dial to zero, and use the heavy counterweight and a tracking force gauge to set VTF. This means the VTF spring will be fully utilised, but enables the counterweight to be closer to the pivot (note spelling) point, which reduces moment of inertia and improves sound.

There is also a third tweak, which is to use the heavy counterweight and set VTF normally, regardless of how heavy your cartridge is, since again this gets the counterweight closer to the pivot point. (This is also the principle on which Express Machining's Heavy Weight operates, as well as lowering the centre of gravity by having most of the mass of the counterweight below the pivot point).

There is also the Incognito re-wire kit (available from Moth in the UK and Express Machining in the US), which I plan to try, and which is said to improve all of the Rega arms, including the RB600 and RB900.

Anyone have any experience with these tweaks?

Frank, thanks for clearing up the counterweight mystery.

Ross