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does the Mana reference 'shelf' work the same as a ref table?

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Yes, except it's not on the floor. You also can't upgrade its phase with soundstages, although you can with flattops or reference tops - I'm at phase 6 now.

I've never heard an XPS, but I understand from others who have that it does give the same level of improvement. YMMV.

John

By all means investigate stands/platforms for your player, but please give us some credit where it's due!

As the CDX' transformer and power supply components are inside the same case as the sensitive digital and audio electronics there is of course a limit on sound quality, as with all integrated players; the XPS solves this.

If we'd made the CDX so that it could only work with an XPS you wouldn't have had the flexibilty of buying the combination in stages.

Hardly a marketing ploy, surely?

FWIW, not many manufacturers allow their CD players to be upgraded this way, so hats off to Naim for giving us all the choice.

John (who doesn't yet own a Naim CD player, but it's on the cards)

PS. Paul S @Naim, went over to L&C yesterday, saw the Aro, everything is A1, you have one satisfied customer in me (albeit indirectly, as it's s/h) but, rest assured, I now understand what people refer to when they talk about the excellent service from Naim!

Interesting. I wonder if you're really serious.

I believe Naims' strategy is very good. It allows all sorts of upgrading through various components. The ability to buy a pre/power-amp then upgrade by simply adding a power supply. The fact that supplies can be used with alternative pre/power combinations is good stuff. You never have to sell everything to get an upgrade as you do with other manufacturers. Even the integrated amplifier can be turned into a preamp.

With respect to the CDX, the XPS is offered as an upgrade which can also be used with the CDS2 later. If Naim really wanted to rip people off this wouldn't be the case would it?

All of this is pretty obvious and well known to everyone. I'm just trying to get across that Naim could easily have designed the power supplies for the CDS2 and CDX to be incompatible. They didn't. It seems to me that upgrading through Naim equipment is made pretty easy with as little waste as possible as equipment is replaced.

If a Mana whatever turns out to improve your CDX in the same way the XPS does, what you'd need to ask yourself then is, how will it sound now with the XPS.

Brian

Finally, think back to when you bought the CDX and what you compared it to. I'm sure it outclassed the opposition as it was then and probably still would now. It's just that you have options to take it even further.

Regards

Nei

I own a CDi which I think is not better than the CDX - and the CDI stands for itself as a great player. I guess the same goes with the CDX.
So the CDX suppose to be a great playar for the money and when one is able to, he can get the XPS.
I think that asking why the XPS is not in the CDX case is almost like asking why the 52 electronics is not in the 82 case - so if somene hasn't enough money he buys a 82 although he knows when buying that there is a 52 which is a better one.
There is a CDX AND there is a cdx with XPS.
If you have a cdx, you have to buy the XPS only in order to get the second cd player.

Arie

There are a few available from people upgrading their CDS1 to CDS2.

I got one for £475. About 75% of the performance of an XPS for 25% of the price.

Matt

I have had mine since October 1999 and I had serious reservations about keeping it even after 4 months of trying everything to get rid of a harsh top end. This harshness did not occur when it was brought to a friend's place.
My cdx took a couple of weeks to 'calm down' and then was still almost unlistenable. This is trying all sorts of isolation schemes and vukwich inspired piles of boards/glass and nut/ball bearings. I had put it in the exact location where I had enjoyed a 3.5 for some time.

I still think the cdx is a marvellous machine and listen to it everynight, but is highly (insanely?) sensitive to the setup/stand issue. In my mdf cabinet on perfectly level isolation, the cdx was not listenable. I tried at least a dozen combinations without success. However, I did find a solution when I put the cdx on three Clearlight audio cones. Something in my setup at home was really affecting the cdp badly and these (only) gave me some peace. I presume that I was unable to isolate it sufficiently well without the cones. Now it is at phase 3 Mana and going to phase 4 soon. This was an enormous and unexpectedly fine upgrade.

The bottom line for me is that the cdx was highly sensitive to my siting. Get a good stand of your choice, level it and then hear the reason you bought it. It may be a fantastic player with an XPS, to me it is excellent without.

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I am still finding after time and a change of house that the CDX still has that 'glare' about it that spoils my enjoyment. I have heard the XPS and agree with others that with the power supply the CDX suddenly all falls into place and finally renders it more listenable.

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You don't say how much time you've given it. The received wisdom is that the CDX takes at least 3 weeks of "Repeat" before even approaching its potential. I heard a CDX /82/180/Intro2 at last years' Bristol Show, and although it was abviously a class act and very enjoyable, there was much about the performance which gave the impression of "new cold Naim". It turned out the entire system was less than a week old, so this made good sense.

Thinking that a used CDX was the way to go, I had a well-cooked demo model at home for about 48 hours, and found it better, but still too "glary" and fatiguing for the money, even at a used price. With hindsight, I think it would probably have improved quite a lot had I been able to leave it longer, but I didn't wish to stretch my relationship with the (quite eXcellent !) dealer too far. Obviously this is not a universal finding with the CDX, as there are plenty of happy users on the forum – so there must be some way of avoiding the problem you have found.

The consensus seems to be that the CDX is particularly sensitive to supports and general setup, so in your place I would begin by rethinking the entire installation from scratch, in particular trying to keep power supplies as far away from it as you can. No doubt you will get plenty of recommendations about, um, stands…

My impression is that the CDSII gives you everything without compromise, the CDX compromises on refinement rather than fudging the musical issues, and the CD5 compromises on everything, but to a lesser degree than one would expect when looking at the price list. This constitutes an entirely logical range of players, and if you factor in the XPS-ability of the CDX, it's an excellent stop on the path to a CDSII.

I just wish it would take a HiCap as an interim measure!

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

I have recently been converted to wood as a support material and have built something in faced chip-board (Yes; chipboard) and now have ambient space and background information; hitherto missing on steel framed racks.

The sound is also smoother and warmer. The downside is that it does slow things down a bit.

I can put up with that for the information and spatial ambience, previousy missing.

Try it on a coffee table etc:

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Sorry, but The bare CDX just didnt work for me.

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Fair enough, but what are your options? If another company made a preferable CD player at the price, you and many others would have bought it.

Joe

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Maybe my expectations were too high and I am a bit frustrated by the upgrade spiral that I, like many others, have got into. It feels a bit frustrating to have to shell out another 2 grand so soon after the initial expense.

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You must have been satisfied with the CDX, presumably after a home-demo, to part with your money, no? Of course there is always something better if you are prepared to pay more money. A spiralling upgrade path Naim certainly has, but you should be in control of yours.

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Now the CDS 2 is another story........!

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More money, more music, more expectations. At least the CDX will function without the XPS .

James (keeping his CD2 until the laser dies or the Borg assimilates the Lottery Machine)

Resistance is Futile

Just discovered this earlier today while re-assembling a repair unit, though this may be obvious to some...

Both the CDX and the CD5 share (though implemented differently) a three-point mounting for the tray pivot--three screws are used to adjust the forward / sideways position of the tray relative to the rest of the chassis.

Once this has been properly set up (at the factory, typically), there is a small silver hex screw that should then be rotated (outward) against the bottom of the chassis--if this is loose or screwed inward, the mechanical coupling between the pivot and the chassis is diminished, and, consequentially, so is the performance.

If this is unclear, please contact your dealer or Naim directly (if you are in the U.K.).

Hope this helps,
Dave Dever, NANA

As a consumer the world is your Hi-Fi shop.

If there's another machine at CDX price level, that offers a musically satisfying performance, and overcomes the problems you find with the CDX, why don't you buy it (and then let us all know about it)

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com

I have listen to a CDX (but alas in a Linn kairn/LK140/AV5140 system), and I don't want to blame anyone ( Linn amps and speakers, CD player, matching between the 2) but the ensemble was offering a dull sound compared to my karik/kairn/active kabers set up.

in this system the CDX was also clearly trounced by the Linn Ikemi.
therefore I decided not to go with the CDX (but I suspect i might come from the CDX/kairn mismatch)

(too bad for me, looking for a CD player for living alongside my LP12)

regards
Jean-christophe

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Sorry I offended so many of you

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You certainly didn't offend me, I just wanted to throw some balance back into the discussion!

If you're not happy with the CDX perhaps there's something wrong with it? I think it's worth having it checked before dismissing it, we'll be happy to look at it for you free of charge...

Arie

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I have no problems to be cinical and criticize everythin including Naim and Mark Tucker

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Yeah, I had noticed!

No problem with this , Arie, it all adds to the fun, especially when you go off on one!
Love it

By the way, do users in continental Europe (where plugs do not carry fuses) experience better sound as a result?

I also agree with using wood as a support - I have Projekt stands which make the CDX very smooth (but very musical).