• wtf?

I haven't heard the said Creek player. But this does not sound like the CD5/CD5i i know!

Interesting to note that, on this board, lack of resolution mentioned many times in the past on these players against comparatively priced kit.

Internet ramblings, indeed, are often frightening.

[This message was edited by kuma on Mon 22 November 2004 at 4:51.]

Chances are this user had the CD5i plugged into a power conditioner or worse. It is possible to take a perfectly good CD5i and ruin it.

Chris Bell

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Originally posted by Chris Bell:
Chances are this user had the CD5i plugged into a power conditioner or worse. It is possible to take a perfectly good CD5i and ruin it.

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Chris,

Almost all gear sound worse with a power conditioner, tho. ( in my house anyways )

Any particular reason why a CD5i is so sensitive to one and not the CD5?

One can assume that given the context of the demo that both the creek and the naim were connected to the same sound degradating power source? Perhaps the best thing to do is either to do the demo for yourself and form your own opinion or just respect the authors.
Music is like art everyones taste or interpretation is valid....otherwise everyone in the world would own naim....which I'm sure for naim would not be a bad thing....
Is it impossible to believe that a naim cd player is not all things to all people?...I've not heard the cd50 but I've heard the creek cd53 and like all players it has strengths and weaknesses...different to a naim player.

Name,

I can respect everyone has different opinions on what a good hifi supposed to be like .

What got me was that the author claimed that Creek player had a better timing than Naim.

Any CD players at around 1K-1.5k mark, numbers of compromises need to be made. But I was taken back by the comment on a Naim player can't time?

[This message was edited by kuma on Mon 22 November 2004 at 8:37.]

Besides the power conditioner comment (why try to alter a player before it is in your setting and you listened to it the way the manufacturer constructed it -thus in general: without the conditioner-. Another example: I never like it when someone auditiones speakers and immediately includes a subwoofer);

what does this guy/girl mean with this:

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Great rhythm, but for non-rhythmical music it still tries to impose a rhythm.

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You know beforehand that one of Naim's strongpoint is the rhythm thing and then you're going to bend it in a weak spot. Almost patehtic.

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Originally posted by musfed:
what does this guy/girl mean with this:

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Great rhythm, but for non-rhythmical music it still tries to impose a rhythm.

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Well, beats me. I almost fell off my chair on that quote.

Every piece of music has a rhythmic structure as I hear it.

Feed it with Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music and see if it imposes a rhythm

Also he never said the Creek had better timing than the Naim - in fact he said it was "nearly as good rhythmically".

However, the guy's entitled to his own opinion. Maybe the Creek does have that bit extra treble, however he's probably got a different set of priorities to the rest of us.

Also we can speculate whether a Creek CD Player is a susceptable to the problems of mains conditioners, just as we can speculate that he's actually using one.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
The Hi-Fi Doctor

Is there any mention of what electronics was attached and the speakers used to listen. You can significantly change how a CDP sounds if for example you use sleepy electronics and speakers.

regards
GEOFF

"Just trying to make a NAIM for myself"

Sweeping generalisation I know – today’s reviewers seem to have been brought up on a diet of attack treble. If it’s not cleaning your ears out it lacks attack and therefore misses out on timing – according to them. The CD5x just got a good mini review in What HiFi (yeah, I know, but people do read it and – shock horror – buy stuff based on what’s printed) with the caveat that the player is laid back and the bass is fruity. Huh? Not according to my ears it isn’t. It’s perfectly balanced. I wonder if the early piss stream, sorry, bitstream players set some sort of ‘in yer face’ benchmark which is now considered a minimum standard.

I have lost count of the number of times I have listened to a highly reviewed box, only to find it lacking in any musical ability. I recently bought a cheap DVD player on spec because a mag said they would award it six stars if they could. Absolute disaster – but I got my money back. I sometimes wonder if they just concoct reviews by merging and editing the press releases, whilst listen to the players in the background, or possibly another room. Of course, some mags go to a lot more trouble and publish better reviews – but who’s ears do you trust? Even a scientific essay based on a month’s listening can only be a guide at best. And what if the reviewer’s taste is exactly the opposite of yours? I buy the odd mag and read the reviews (purely for entertainment) – but I’d be just as well served talking to a bloke down the pub. Although I'd miss the lovely photography.

Cheers

Harry

On a related note how the hell are you supposed to read that wbsite, do you have to constanlty click back and then onto the next reply.

What a mess.

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Originally posted by Andrew Randle:
Also he never said the Creek had better timing than the Naim - in fact he said it was "nearly as good rhythmically".

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I think the Creek has more accurate timing.

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Yeah. But the guy below did.

I can understand everyone has a different set of priorities.

But what's interesting is that who's 'timing' is right?

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Originally posted by Geoff P:
Is there any mention of what electronics was attached and the speakers used to listen. You can significantly change how a CDP sounds if for example you use sleepy electronics and speakers.

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NOpe. No mentions of any of that which is pretty typical of internet postings.

If you repeat enough lies, it becomes the truth is what my friend told me.

"If you repeat enough lies, it becomes the truth is what my friend told me."

Hey, it works for George Bush!

Kuma: I sent you a PT

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– buy stuff based on what’s printed) with the caveat that the player is laid back and the bass is fruity. Huh?

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Harry,

That type of sonic traits are easier to identify than this whole 'rhythm & timing' thing, I think.

Yet, most reviews on any Naim kit, unanimously, they get the thumbs up on timing traits even if they didn't *score* highly on other area.

I wonder What is the general consensus on the Creek?
I haven't heard any of thier kit except their Headamp and it was a horrible match with my Grado. Thick, warm and slow!

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but who’s ears do you trust? Even a scientific essay based on a month’s listening can only be a guide at best.

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Of course, everyone should trust their own ears. But many don't know what they are hearing ( at least it seems sometimes ) so that they end up relying on others or mag. reviews. I agree that reviews or hearsay can give a listener a good pointer but the majority out there ( or beginners ) are not sophisticated enough how to read into them or have no access to hear a gear in question themselves.

The case in point. Recently, a friend asked me what I thought of Creek and Naim players.

I told him that I haven't heard any Creek players, but directed him to the AA board or this place to get more info.

Few days later he came back to me and said, Creek playler might be better for him because he read more *negative things* in Naim players than the former.
Since he can't audition either player, he'll be relying on other's opinions for his purchase decision.

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And what if the reviewer’s taste is exactly the opposite of yours?

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I can respect anyone's taste. But a reviewer should be able to assess and accurately describe basic sonic traits of a gear whether he/she likes it or not.

But we all know many reviewers try to impose upon their own taste/preference to others and it ends up becoming the *gospel*.

NAME has it right. Why on earth do people get angry when someone doesn't concur with their favored brand? At least the poster is apparently buying for sound and is not into audio jewellery. Or some i-pod/sub-sat combo that all my pals are into. Now there's something to get angry about

I've heard (at a dealer) the Creek 50 series sound rather excellent vs. Naim's i series when pushing Royd RR1. In fact, the 50 series tended to outperform the 53 series in this context.

No idea why, I'm rather confused myself. I've owned the RR1 and couldn't get them to sing with lower end Naim, but they work just fine with other brands so perhaps it's the speakers.

Anyways, if I hadn't heard the 50 series vs. Naim i for myself I would have laughed the poster off the forum as you all seem to be, but I've heard both and I hear where he's coming from. They're both quite competitive.

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But we all know many reviewers try to impose upon their own taste/preference to others and it ends up becoming the *gospel*.

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I think this is also true of some HiFi dealers who are further motivated to make a sale of "anything" they have in their shop.

We have all no doubt sat in a demo room at one time or another, listening to a set of HiFi kit with the shop assistant/owner breathing down our neck and throwing in remarks like "now that's a great sound stage isn't ir?" or perhaps "listen to the way that is presenting all the rich tones of the singer's voicë, great is'nt it?"

How many have turned around and said "actually I think that sounds terrible and the suggestion that it is the best kit made is a bunch of crap".

People in the position to influence innocents at large into parting with serious amounts of money, especially the first time buyers should show some sense of responsibility. Quite a lot do, but an awfull lot more don't. It makes you appreciate the good hifi dealers of this world.

regards
GEOFF

"Just trying to make a NAIM for myself"

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Originally posted by kuma:
The case in point. Recently, a friend asked me what I thought of Creek and Naim players.....

...Few days later he came back to me and said, Creek playler might be better for him because he read more *negative things* in Naim players than the former.
Since he can't audition either player, he'll be relying on other's opinions for his purchase decision.

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Man, that could be SUCH a bad idea - but I understand. His situation dictates it. I take being able to walk in off the street for granted. I should remember how lucky I am.

Even so, reading that again still makes me cringe. Four years back I was in the market for a Rega Jupiter. It was just a question of going to the shop and buying it. I knew I'd like it and everyone was raving about it. Turned out that although having the utmost respect and admiration for the Jupiter, I could never live with it. It would have been sold inside two months. Cue CD5...

Very tricky. I don't envy your mate one bit. I wish him luck.

Cheers

Harry

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Originally posted by Mike Sae:
No idea why, I'm rather confused myself. I've owned the RR1 and couldn't get them to sing with lower end Naim, but they work just fine with other brands so perhaps it's the speakers.

Anyways, if I hadn't heard the 50 series vs. Naim i for myself I would have laughed the poster off the forum as you all seem to be, but I've heard both and I hear where he's coming from. They're both quite competitive.

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Interesting Mike.

And the rest of system was Naim?
'Both competitive' would be a fair assessment.


I didn't mean to defend the brand blindly,cuz, not all of their stuff are winners either.

If someone said Naim does a lousy stage depth. I am fine with that. Cuz, they don't.
But the Creek out timing Naim I thought was an *odd* comment.

[This message was edited by kuma on Mon 22 November 2004 at 20:14.]

Guys, the problem lies not with partnering equipment or anything like that!
The problem is this:

"but for non-rhythmical music it still tries to impose a rhthm."

Could someone PLEASE tell me what sort of music doesn't have rhythm?????