Hello all

I've been lurking for quite some time now, but decided to post my first system related poser

My system CD5/FC/202/150X Totem Model 1 Signiatures with Nordost Blue Heaven speaker cale, I've had all the equipment at least six months now. Plus I've already made my mind up to pick up a NAPSC in a months time

Room 4 x 3.5 meters, and rather cluttered, it's my bedroom

I've noticed that some cd's sound overly bright even harsh while other's are simply spell binding. I have reasoned that the recording quality of many of todays cd's isn't great especialy many of the "indie" acts I enjoy but I think that something is still slightly amiss ?

My own personal thoughts (having spent much time ploughing through hundereds of posts) is to audition some NACA5, possibly the Blue Heaven is a little fast and over focuses the treble ?

Would any of you care to venture other possiblities or alternatives ?

Cheers

SJH

Muttley,

welcome to the forum.

Stick to Naca5, it is the best speaker cable for Naim gear.

Regards

PB

Vote for NACA5 here as well

Thank you PB

I plan to ask my dealer to have a run of NACA5 ready for when I collect my NAPSC.

Just giving one of the worst offending disks Maximo Park - A Certain Trigger a quick listen on my lesser system the one playing by my PC now, and I must say it sounds foul on this as well, lyrically spot on mind. I'll have to give a few more disks a try, hmm...

SJH

A lot has been discussed on this point. In small rooms or any setup where you're listening nearfield, a CD that is recorded bright might sound harsh. I have mixed many recordings myself back in the 80's and we often mixed purposely bright to allow the recording to sound good on car systems, juke boxes, etc. When you have a large room, the highs often dissapate and these CDs will sound fine, but when you're close up - well, you know the result. I haven't experimented with speaker cables and I think you should use NACA with Naim amps to avoid potential electrical problems, but, IMO, it can't make a poorly-recorded CD sound good. Perhaps you can move the speakers a bit to emphasize the bass frequencies, which will help balance the treble? I think a good "test" to see if it's the CD or your system is Nora Jones "Don't Know Why" (1st track on 1st CD) Her voice is recorded really up-front and fairly bright. On a "harsh" system, that vocal will make you wince, so if it sounds good, the problem probably isn't in your system.

Thanks Chayro

I've just finished experimenting a little and where a track has bass or strong mid-band the harshness is indeed lessened by moving the speakers closer to the rear wall. I feel that better recordings suffer slightly in this position so a little more fine tuning may be required to strike a better balance. Your recommendations cleary have merit in a room as small as mine.

Not so sure about buying Nora Jones though

Cheers.

SJH

Nora makes a good test record. I make no representations about anything else. I find the best tool for adjusting speaker position is a CD with a clear female vocal and strong bass. You keep moving the speakers until you find a position that gives the best balance between good bass response and natural vocal sound. Some positions give great bass, but start clouding up the vocals too much. It's easy to tell on the 1st Nora record. Once you get the speakers adjusted, you can use the CD as a coaster or dogshit scoop.

quote:

Nora makes a good test record. I make no representations about anything else. I find the best tool for adjusting speaker position is a CD with a clear female vocal and strong bass. You keep moving the speakers until you find a position that gives the best balance between good bass response and natural vocal sound. Some positions give great bass, but start clouding up the vocals too much. It's easy to tell on the 1st Nora record. Once you get the speakers adjusted, you can use the CD as a coaster or dogshit scoop.

In that case I'll stick with Tanya Donelly, no more coasters or poop scoops are required that's what AOL freebies are for

Thanks again

Chayro -

Thanks for the tip. I used to do the same when I was spending time lisenting to Dianna Krall. I need to dig out one of those CDs and see (er...hear) what happens.

- GregB

quote:

Originally posted by Chayro:
Nora makes a good test record.... Once you get the speakers adjusted, you can use the CD as a coaster or dogshit scoop.

One of the best posts in recent memory!

Aaah, forget about Norah Jones and the like and try some Fall if you are into indie stuff. If you can understand what Mark E. Smith is on about, your system is fine. MES loves NAC-A5, so it seems...

Have fun!

Willem

Muttly

I think you'll find that a lot of the simpler stuff such as Norah Jones will sound exemplary on your system. It's when things get busy that your system will produce the harsher sound. I believe you should hang on to your money until you can afford a 200. The Model-1 Sig is really quite difficult to drive and this is contributing to the shriek. An amp with better grip and control would resolve much of this much of the time. Then buy a NAPSC at Christmas.

Of course, there's no escaping that some recordings are really quite nasty. OK Computer, NIN (almost anything), The Clash. All are busy difficult recordings which will still sound difficult, but using Norah Jones as a test disc is really just a way of pandering to the system's weaknesses. Use it (or something like it) as one of several tests, but don't rely on it as representative, sinc there's a lot of music out there which is recorded indifferently.

I think, in general, there is a tendency to start listening too loud, which desensitizes the ears. Try starting out listening at a volume you consider too low. After a track or two, you ears will open up, like your eyes do when you go into a dim room, and the volume will sound "normal". Then, just turn it up the slightest possible bit and it will sound full and punchy. It's like "warming up your ears" before listening. Plus, when you listen softer, you don't stress out your amp and speakers so everything is operating in a comfortable zone, which means better sound.

Muttly

Why not use your Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon - 30th Anniversary Edition (Hybrid SACD)as a test CD? Whilst some recordings can sound very hifi and highlight the abilities of one system over another, I find it very difficult to audition a system with music that I don't like.

I'm sure Norah Jones is better recorded than HMHB for example, but I'm simply not interested in how well a system can reproduce Norah Jones whereas I am interested in how it will fair with music I like.

There'll be others who much prefer Norah to anything in my collection and that's fine. I just think you must audition with your favourite tracks to get a real idea of how you will enjoy the system.

So when I heard HMHB, ISB, Martha & the Muffins, Nick Drake, Pink Floyd, Mahler and Leos Janacek all sounding great on my naim system then I knew it was right for me.

Rotf

PS - I vote for NACA5 cable too

Totem speakers do tend to be a brighter sounding speaker and Naim is known to be a bright sounding amplifier so I wouldnt be surprised to hear such a system is bright sounding! Maybe a differant cable would help, but the truth is its most likely the faulty of the recording and probably not much you can do about it. This is why alot of people tend to prefer a system that is less bright and more forgiving of bad recordings. Totem does make some really nice monitors though, have you heard the Mani-2 by any chance, definitly my favorite standmount, that speaker has the bass and impact of a floorstander and can disappear like a standmount you get the best of both worlds! The only drawback is that they need a ton of power, Totem reccomended 200w minimum in a mid sized room to get the best sound!! I have been wanting a pair for so long but can;t afford them, i could probably afford a second hand pair but I would then need to get myself a monster amp to go with them which can be quite expensive! Enjoy your Model 1's they are great little monitors for sure! Good luck!

Hi thanks everybody for your posts. You’ve given me quite a lot to think over

First off I plan to do a lot more listening over the next few days with all types of recordings; I think there is still some scope for a slight improvement in my speaker position. I must also take this opportunity to say I had left my speakers where they worked for my previous amps (Musical Fidelity Electra pre/power) so shame on me for not checking this straight off. In general my listening starts loud then lowers after an hour or so, usually going down to very quite levels. I’ve been giving all of my most treasured test discs a spin while checking out speaker positions, and also a few “dogs” to check what impact the moves have made on the problem bright CDs.

Current favourite test discs include:
Johnny Cash – American IV, The Man Comes Around and Hurt. These two tracks are simple yet very rewarding on a good system.
Belly (aka Tanya Donnelly) – Star, Full Moon Empty Heart. Good female vocal plus bass and neat guitar work to follow. Can sound bright if played loud.
Eagles – Hell Freezes Over, Hotel California. Great recording wonderful guitars.
Pink Floyd – Wish You Where Here. Just an all time favourite.
Therapy – Nurse, Teethgrinder. Drum test, very fast drumming great snap and attack when done right.
Soft Cell – Tainted Love ~ Where Did Our Love Go. Great rhythm and vocals

On the issue of my next purchase Frank’s suggestion to upgrade my 150x for a 200 has thrown my plans a little. I had planned to get NAPSC and NACA5 in the next month and possibly audition a HiCap with a view to a purchase before Christmas. Now assuming I get a reasonable trade in on the 150x I could go with the 200 instead of the HiCap, any thoughts, I'm leaning towards trying both and going with the one offering the biggest improvement.

Again a big thank you all

SJH

I'm not sure the 200 will give you that much more than the 150. It's only rated at 70w as opposed to 50. While the 250 is only rated at 80, it has a much bigger power supply, so the difference is larger. I am definitely not suggesting you buy a 250 for a small room, i'm just saying, i'm not sure the 200 is your upgrade path. Just for kicks, I removed the NAPSC from my 202 and the sound was definitely more up-front and "harsher" than with it, although it was certainly not harsh. The NAPSC adds a significant degree of bottom and midrange warmth, IMO, so, if harshness is a problem, I would add the NAPSC before upgrading the amp. Also - I assume you're using the FC on both the preamp and the CD5? Experiment with both running the 5 without the cap and running the 202 off the 150. It absolutely changes the sound and that change may work. When I uncapped my CD5x, the midrange became more recessed. This make work better in a tight environment. Others may disagree that a Naim product would ever sound "better" uncapped, but it's not about "better" - it's about the best fit with your tastes and listening room. However, if you're looking to fatten up the sound and make it less forward, I highly recommend the NAPSC as your next upgrade. Then again, you may just uncap your CD5 and be closer to what you want.

Thanks Chayro

I'm going to have a chat with my dealer and sort out a long demo, I hope to get a listen to both 200 and 250, along with a NAPSC and HiCap. In the meantime I'll certainly give your suggestions a try.

SJH

Hello all

Bit long sorry,

Well why some of you where enjoying Heathrow I got round to having a really good long demo at my dealers. We ran a system of CD5X/FC2/202/150X which is pretty close to my home setup, speaker wise we started by using Spendor 5se speakers, which got ditched after just one track as I felt they weren’t communicating what was going on quite well enough for my ears. In came a pair of B&W 705 which just conveyed more detail. To be honest I really should of taken along my own Totems, but felt a speaker that coud communicate well would surfice.

First up in came a NAPSC, well I had just bought one after all. I was very pleasantly surprised, the best way to describe it would be like hearing a film of dirt wiped away all round just a sense of a little more information getting through. So far so good then

Next up we moved from 150x to 200, this was an improvement in both musicality and communication. The music flowed really well and I thought at this point that the 200 would solve all my problems.

At this point we replaced the FC2 to the CD5X with a HICAP, wow! Darn there goes my 200 upgrade theory. This was the biggest leap so far, really great musicality just got me toe tapping from the off.

Now we decided to push the performance a little beyond what I’d initially thought about. So in comes a slightly cold 250 for the 200. Drum roll please. Again the performance goal posts shifted, the sound was effortless and the bottom end for the first time in the day really had some energy. Right about this point I was really ruing have not brought my Totems along.

I realized that in hearing the 250, the 200 and my budget had just gone south, fast We decided to take a break, as we chatted I commented on how in a few years I’d have the money together for the CDX2 and this along with 202/HICAP/250 would form a lovely system. My dealer asked if I’d like to hear the CDX2 now! Well I’ve always wanted to hear it so I just had to say yes To be fair to both the 250 and the CDX2 I went out for dinner at this point giving them some small warm up time.

Upon my return the system was now CDX2/202/FC2/NAPSC/250 into the B&W705’s the sound was good, and I’m sure I wasn’t catching them at their best. We swapped out the FC2 for a HICAP on the pre-amp almost straight away as this was a pure “system to aim for” listen. I can happily say that’ll be a very happy chap when I have this system as all my test discs sounded spot on, layering on tracks became more and more apparent along with instruments that I’d never picked up on before, all this was topped off with a huge dose of verve and energy, brilliant

So now ?

The last demo really outclassed the 705’s, I feel my Totems would have been very much more suited for that sort of company. I also realized that without my Totems present I couldn’t fully come to meaningful conclusion regarding the 200 or 250 question.

So I’ll have book another demo

In the meantime my NAPSC is now in place at home, and I’m very happy to report that it seems to taken an ever so slight edge off the music, fantastic.

I’m now saving the pennies for the HICAP which was just the no brainer of the audition the benefits it brought to the CD5X where staggering, plus when I get a CDX2 it can go onto the 202, win win

TEST TRACKS

Johnny Cash – American IV - The Man Comes Around.

Belly (aka Tanya Donnelly) – Full Moon Empty Heart.

The Cure – Staring at the Sea - The caterpillar, In between days.

Muse – Absolution – Butterflies and Hurricanes.


All the best

SJH

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Muttly,

Having seen the recent number of forum members praise for Spendor's speaker line up I feel I should of left them in a little longer or brought them back into the listening session for a quick go with my dream line up of CDX2/202/HICAP/250.

Note the Spendor 5se just didn't have enough information at low volume levels, my dealer who knows my speaker tastes, was expecting me to play louder

Still can't wait for that Totem Model 1 sig/250 demo

SJH