Alex B,

Immediately buy a book on "network effects and technology standards adoption". Or similar. Trust me, it will do you good.

quote:

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Originally posted by hockman:

I no longer have faith that "Naim will do the right thing". I've sold off most of my Naims.

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Interesting. But who are you punishing by selling your Naim kit? Naim for losing sight of the goal IYO? Or yourself for losing faith in the manufacturer's long-term goals?

The high-end Naim kit is still the same high-end kit you bought in the first place. Isn't it? Nothing has changed in quality or direction in that area......

Nime

Hockman

To answer one (big) point why RCAs were introduced, I understand one reason was to make people in countries where they are more commonly used ie the USA, at the very least look at Naim equipment, something they would not even consider before. Although we all know that DINs are preferable!

Regards
Geoff

Greetings All

Originally posted by Nime:

quote:

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Interesting. But who are you punishing by selling your Naim kit? Naim for losing sight of the goal IYO? Or yourself for losing faith in the manufacturer's long-term goals?

The high-end Naim kit is still the same high-end kit you bought in the first place. Isn't it? Nothing has changed in quality or direction in that area......

Nime

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I agree entirely. I may have made a move integrating Sony ES gear as I have mentioned into my 2 channel system for AV duties - mainly on cost grounds re going the Naim AV2/175/150 route, and for the smallish difference in sound improvement v's the cost/performance ratio re movie sound, mostly given the Mp3 quality of the soundtracks - but this hybrid setup in no way impinges upon, or negates the quality of my 2 channel setup.

As stated on another thread, I will most likely stick with Naim until say I retire and can no longer afford it, OR in the very and hopefully unlikely event that Naim get swallowed up by some international conglomerate and all the quality/sound/performance etc goes out the window.

There is just NO WAY I would abandon my Naim 2 channel setup, just because they are moving into areas of AV. I cannot see why moving into AV means cheap and cheerful either - quality sound STILL brings huge rewards to the HT experience, despite the arguable dominance of the picture in the viewing/listening experience of HT.

Naim are a specialist company. They specialise in bringing the best sound that they can produce in a product to the market - be that 2 channel music as in the past, or now perhaps for the future, the addition of HT and multi-channel music AS WELL.

I'm very well aware that my new and rather marvellous TADA9000ES all digital amplifier will inevitably be replaced by the next technological 'wonder'; certainly so if HD-DVD/Blu-ray arrives with new audio and video codecs etc.

If Naim can, and I've no doubt they will, produce an pre-amp/processor that will do equal justice for 2 channel, multi-channel music, and HT/movies to the level of their existing midrange preamps (282,252 etc) provided I could afford it, I'd be a starter.

Certainly in my position, I've found the addition of the AV/HT medium to my 2 channel Naim setup has increased my use, and hence value of it to me immeasurably. It now gets used for TV shows, HT/Movies as well as music, - a big increase in return on my investment.

As far as I'm concerned, the future is looking good for home entertainment, and long may Naim be around to give us the best results and satisfaction from whatever medium is in vogue to supply music and movies etc in the home.

Just my 2c worth.. :-)

Cheers

John...

This is my last upgrade.... after this my system will be finished...:-)

Can I be 'orribly rude and ask why Pulse Mode Power Supplies (or any other device that muddies the mains) should remain a problem in 2004?

It's not unlike offering the world's best de-salinisation plant. But then telling the customer that unfortunately you've just discovered that the sea isn't just plain salt and water. So the world's best de-salinisation plant won't work quite as well as expected.

Isn't the mains terminally polluted and likely to remain so or get steadily worse with each new technological "advance"?

Aren't there technological/electronic fixes for dirty mains that don't compromise sound quality?

Virtual batteries or batteries of real batteries for example?

Nime

quote:

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Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
There was, for me, an entirely admirable interview with Roy Gandy of Rega in an issue of the BAJ (British Audio Journal). They have decided to remain a company that sticks to two channel audio.

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For those interested, the interview can be found here.

In the spirit of non-partisanship, there's an interview of Naim's Paul Stephenson here.

FWIW my only point is

Naim are surely competing in a busy market, where the average punter has heard of Sony, JVC, Phillips etc

A smaller part of the market contains the quality British companies. What differentiates Naim from everyone else is their innovation. Eg they were the first to market a pre-amp with no tone controls, the market then followed.

Now Naim are following the market, which has seen convergence between Audio and Video systems, particularly in the customer market for single people and couples with one living room who don't want a hifi and a tv system.

When the market moves and Naim follows I think we're seeing a culture change in Naim, which I think is a bit of a shame, but in reality until now I hadn't considered using Naim gear in my TV room at all, because it was just too much hard work (eg no video switch on the AV2).

If on the other hand I could benefit from a better picture and sound from the DVD5 than I get from my Arcam AV88 AND suffer no problems in terms of still being able to control the video switching via my Arcam AVR, then so be it - I might buy one. But I'm still not going to go down the AV2 route until it can be combined with a sensible switching arrangment for video and sound and without having to have 4 or 5 more shelves under my TV to accomodate the modular box approach. I wanna watch da movie, not da naim logos.

Cliff

My guess is that Naim realise that the market is shifting quickly. They have stuck to their principles and are releasing a DVD only when it's ready. In real terms it maybe too little, too late (no that they'd admit that of course) but having got the base sorted when the new wave arrives next week/year/deacade they will be more than prepared.

I like to think of the DVD5 as a primliminary skirmish before battle commences. (and then I'll be able to pick up a cheap secondhand one )

Tom
Actively enjoying it all

Where'd Alex go?

quote:

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Originally posted by Nime:
Aren't there technological/electronic fixes for dirty mains that don't compromise sound quality?

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Nime,

unfortunately, this is a very Alex-esque comment. Highly appropriate on this thread.

JV commented extensively on the old forum that they had tried many such fixes, and they all ruined the sound.

Strangely, even using 24V batteries turned out to be noisier than the output from a Naim PSU!!

cheers, Martin

E-mail:- MartinPayne (at) Dial.Pipex.com. Put "Naim" in the title.

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Strangely, even using 24V batteries turned out to be noisier than the output from a Naim PSU!!

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What the sound of electrons moving?

Perhaps they should have switched off the trucks' engine when listening.

Howard

I think naim are only too late for those people that continually chase and adopt new technology. This is fine, but ultimately there is no guarantee that new technology will be adopted by the majority of consumers, and it could end up being a costly experiment for those that do.

I've read alot about Naim, the interviews, the company and their philosophy. I have found nothing that says 'don't invest in this companys' products'. I have every reason to invest in a company like this; I know I won't see an anouncement that says the new model I've just invested in will be replaced in a few months.

I used to be somebody who chased new technology all the time, and that's all it is, new technology. It's easy to get caught up in it, and to dismiss old technology as inferior, which isn't necessarily the case.

I applaud naim for being as catious as they are, because it reflects my attitude towards investing my money in hi-fi/av products. I trust naim know what they are doing and I trust their opinion is a sound one. I would say naim are only too late if DVD becomes obselete in a year or so; that just won't happen.

Why does everybody think DVD is doomed? DVD sales and projections are outstanding right now. DVD is here in its present form for at least a few more years. I really think the idea that DVD is doomed is spawned by people who are looking toward a future of pc based movie and music machines that offer higher quality at a cheaper price. This is simply not reasonable RIGHT now. Maybe in some distant future, but lets wait and here one that works properly first.

"here in its present form for at least a few more years"
Thats not very long though is it?
Martin

quote:

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Originally posted by Martin D:
"here in its present form for at least a few more years"
Thats not very long though is it?
Martin

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"Popular" formats tend to stick around...

vinyl - donkeys years!
cd - over 20 years and counting
dvd - ??? the fastest growing format ever!

Jay

First of all, thank you Adam for coming into this debate and giving us a clear statement. I would also like to apologize to Naim and all owners of Naim gear I might or actually have insulted.
I know I tend to get a little or very pumped up when discussing things and do lose my temper or chose the wrong words. Sorry. I'll truly work on it.

I still hope some of you enjoyed the read and none of you are actually thinking of leaving the Naim boat....I reckon you would regret it and I don't want to be the reason or part of it. I love Naim even if it does not seem like it. I always recommend Naim to anyone I know or praise it on other forums. Strangely, here, where I can discuss it with people actually knowing what I am talking about, I do tend to look for weaknesses, maybe just some strange program running in my head. I very much appreciate all the speakers Naim has produced as they finally gave me pleasure after years of suffering.
I haven't been lucky with the electronics, maybe I would have needed to just buy the entry level stuff and let it sink in but then I haven't got the cash and don't like buying and waiting.

I admit that Naim is more or less the only company I know, that really seems to actually put some love into their systems and thinks them through properly, even if sometimes some minor thing is overlooked. However, the DVDP is quite late but I hope it will succeed, I would like Naim to be still up and going and still believing in the same HiFi aspects as they are now. The day I maybe finally can afford to buy the lot. Maybe I'll never make it, but that's one of the big goals I have in life. An all Naim HiFi System and one day finish my studying and be somewhere near as good as some or most or all of your engineers are.

Sorry, if this sounds like I am trying to slime my way back into this forum, but all I just said is actually true. I do love Naim and maybe that's why I worry and sometimes express it in an utterly wrong way.

Anyway, I would like to apologize to Naim again and will now clean out my locker and leave you guys to this and the other discussions. Maybe I'll return sometime for a little chit-chat but until then, I wish you all a nice journey with your Naim gear, wish all the best to Naim Audio and hope they sell their whole stock and maybe one day I'll be able to buy the left-overs

Enjoy!

[This message was edited by Adam Meredith on Thu 23 September 2004 at 20:22.]

Hi!

Didn't read all through this msgs, but...

I've just enjoyed the following system:

DVD5, Beamer was a SIM2 for around 35k Euros, picture 4 m, AV2, 252, 500, 4:1 with SL2 and Arrivas.

I've never seen or heard anything better in AV.

Don't care why or what the setup was worth. Don't care if theres anything newer or better around. I was just a really great session!

... the best thing.. it was in Germany so Alex B. go and also enjoy it!

Regards,

Adrian

I have to confess to being intrigued as to what Adam may have edited from Alex's last message.

I am wondering if there wasn't a sentence in the midst of the homily that started with a colossal, capitalised "BUT..."

Of course, it was probably a mundanely removable reference to a competitor or somesuch.

I like to think it was a damning tirade against Naim which Adam has rewritten as above but I suspect it's merely that AlexB is now under moderation and so the post had to be allowed through under Adam's edit.

quote:

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Originally posted by Tom Alves:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jun Keller:

Hey Alex, do you think that Jascha Heifetz' playing was cold?

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He was useless on the trombone

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Clearly, you have never heard his 1940 trombone adaptation of Beethoven's Violin Concerto. I'd offer to lend you my copy on SHTRD but I can't seem to find it...