enjoy...

ken

I've had both players for about 8 months now on the same system and have had a lot of time to discern the differences.

The CDS2 is more analog sounding, just a tad more laid back than the CDS1, yet still very detailed. The thought that comes to mind sometimes is "round earth". I imagine that I'll take a few hits on that, but in comparison to the CDX/XPS and the CDS1 it is more round earth. But just a little.

The CDS1 really needs Mana to make it work right. The Mana really makes it shine. Some prefer the sound of the CDS1 as it offers more PRaT. I agree with this assessment. It's kind of like a CDX/XPS going up to the next level.

It the end both players are extremely close to each other and you really have to listen to hear the differences. If you want more PRaT go with the CDS1. If you want your CD player to sound like and LP12 then go for the CDS2.

Kind of hard to go wrong either way. The CDS1 has the obvious advantage of being much less expensive and the promise of future upgradability. You've also got to get the Mana to get the PRaT thing going too.

John Wason (Mana founder) and a lot of the other Mana flock prefer the CDS1 over the CDS2.

I can see their point, but in the end it's a matter of personal taste. I like both of them.

Arthur By

I upgraded from CDS1 to CDS2.

Differences were that CDS2 was much sweeter and tidier, but I must agree with Arthur that the CDS1 is more forward in its presentation.

To me there was also more air/spacing around the instruments, the result being the music sounding more "human" and less mechanical.

Don't get me wrong, I lived happily wiht CDS1 for 9 years, and it is still an excellent player, but CDS2 does not "harden up" at higher volume levels.

Hope this helps

Trevor

Where does the upgraded CDS2 with CDS1 power supply sit in terms of sound quality?

If you want more PRaT go with the CDS1. If you want your CD player to sound like and LP12 then go for the CDS2.

------------------------------------------

Do you really think the CDS1 has more PRaT than an LP12?!?!

Bloody hell, I am astonished and I think if you have an LP12 it needs a service.

The other point is that many feel that the CDS2 does not work on Mana so if you have a CDS1 without Mana then a CDS2 is more likely to float your boat. If you like the Mana influence then it may be less clear.

Cheers

Jason

quote:

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Do you really think the CDS1 has more PRaT than an LP12?!?!

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Jason:

Yes, I think that the CDS1 has more PRaT than a LP12, or a P9 (which is what I have). The CDX/XPS also has more PRaT. It took me a while to sort this out, but both the CDX/XPS and the CDS1 have, what I think to be, artificially high levels of PRaT that get you jumping, but in the end not realistic. It's not a lot and its difficult to notice, but if you have a CDS2 to compare you'll hear the differences. Most times this extra PRaT is enjoyable and I imagine that's why so many people like the CDS1 and CDX/XPS so much. But there is a difference with the CDS2, and that's what I feel it is.

The CDS2 does a better job of giving you an accurate reproduction of the music.

Other odds bits are that the CDS2 seems to have better resolution, and deeper (although rounder) bass.

It takes a lot of listening to sort all this out.

Mostly the two players sound identical. You really have to listen into the music to get the very subtle differences.

Arthur Bye

You have obviously listened to both machines exhaustively, I wish I had the chance but I am surprised by your conclusion that the 1 ~ the 2.

I thought that the CDS1 was of a similar standard to the CDX+XPS and that the CDS2 comfortably outperformed both, well the CDS2 comfortably outperformed a CDX+XPS on one ocassion and a CDS1 was of a similar (although diferent) overall standard to a CDX + XPS on a different ocassion, I have never heard all three together.

Have you tried the comparison on any stands other than Mana? If not do you think that the similarity of the 1 and 2 could be due to the CDS1 suiting the Mana and the CDS2 not?

Cheers

Jason

I was referring to CDS2 having more space etc.

I cannot comment on CDS1.5 - never heard it

Regards

Trevor

cheers hooch

quote:

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Neal wrote: A fifteen-hundred quid O-ring?

Listening to these CDS1/CDS2 debates it's clear
that the CDS1 still holds its own even if the
overall opinion seems to be that the CDS2 is the
marginally better player. What a shame then, that those of us with CDS1 have to ditch them because what amounts to a fancy O-ring wears out...

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I'm the owner of an early cdi. Please pardon my ignorance, but what is this ring that wears out, and how can I tell if it is worn? Are we talking about the metal plate, coated black, that supports the cd under its clamp?

Richard

phew!! this forum is soooo useful! many thanks to all of you, especially arthur , trevor and neilp for detailed answers.

i had settled on a cds2 -- its the outlay that has got me thinking about cds1 -- possibly upgraded to cds1.5. plus the fact that i rather liked the sound of my newphew's cdi compared to my own cd2. to me, the cdi was more organic than the cd2 -- and i was beginning to suspect the same might be the case for cds1 vs cds2.

mind you, the active system that so impressed me last week was sourced from cds2, so that bodes well for it -- but we always want more don't we???

i dont know this o-ring thingy either -- appears to work against cds1 choice --however, how often does it need changing -- like a cartridge??

its a bit hard to compare these units these days, but if i get a chance, i will.

my current position is to go for cds2 as it obviously contributed substantially in my active demo.

many thanks again guys... any more observations/insights obviously very welcome, especially on upgraded cds1's (presumable the cds1.5's)

enjoy...

ken

"i dont know this o-ring thingy either -- appears to work against cds1 choice --however, how often does it need changing -- like a cartridge??"

People are referring to the black nextel (?) ring that occupies the circumfrance of the CDS1 metal hub. (I'm going to try to attach an image of the hub with nextel ring in tact (this is actuall a Philips CDM2 and the CDS uses some version of the CDM9, but I'm fairly certain the hubs are quite similar.)

And no, its not like a cartridge. It can't be changed when it wears out. And Naim is out of new CDS1 drives and only ocassionally have used ones hanging around which are in various states of disrepair. So, if you get lucky, you might score a used CDS1 drive with a reasonably intact nextel ring. If not, you've got to fork out 1500 quid (or $4,000 US) for a CDS1.5 (the CDS2 player without the ps).

I have known people who have used very small pieces of blu-tack (like the size of a pin head) in the "trough" of the hub as a way to deal with the ring problem. It doesn't seem to effect the sound but it sure does help the tracking.

quote:

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I thought that the CDS1 was of a similar standard to the CDX+XPS and that the CDS2 comfortably outperformed both

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Jason:

A dead cold CDS1 will out perform a fully warmed CDX/XPS. The differences are immediate and marked.

The differences between the CDS1 and CDS2 are not that clear. Frequently, depending on the music, they sound very much the same. It's much more a matter of personal taste. Niether one is necessarily superior to the other, just different. If you like the forward presentation of a CDX/XPS, then you will probably like the CDS1 better than the CDS2. By no means does this mean that the CDS1 has a forward presentation though. It's only in comparison to the CDX that you notice this. I doubt that anyone would describe the sound of a CDS1 as being forward when listened to straight up.

As far as the Nextel ring is concerned. I still have my original 4 year old puck that seems to work fine. Occasionally I will encounter an errant CD where I have to use the 2 ring Nextel puck. Being clean with the player and your CD's helps. Keep skin oil off the CD's. The Nextel ring flattens out after a while so you have to squeeze it to work properly from time to time. Additionaly you should not leave discs in the player overnight as this tends to flatten the ring. Just a little discipline and cleanliness and you will rarely encounter probelms with the CDS1. I Blu-Tak the CD bay regularly to keep the area clean (don't Blu-Tak the lens though).

My understanding from Dave Dever at NANA is that the CDS1-PS power supply is very close to the XPS power supply and that most people will not notice the difference when upgrading to a CDS1.5 with a CDS2 head unit. I haven't heard one to know, but my past experience with Dave Dever leads me to believe him.

I know that most people want a winner and a loser here, but it's not going to happen. Both of these units are great and just a little different. I could easily live with either and feel that I wasn't missing anything.

Things like cartridge choice, speaker choice (or placement) in my opinion, offer much greater variations than the difference between a CDS1 Vs CDS2

Arthur Bye

You are speaking about the rubber rings on the clamps. This is not the nextel ring in question. I tried to upload an image but it exceeded Naim's image size limit and I can't figure out a way to make it any smaller.

I have heard people comment that the CDX/XPS=CDS1. This is far from the truth.

I also purchased a black burndy for the CDS1 which really smoothed out any hardness to the sound that some people have commented.

Keep in mind with all of my comparisons the CDX/XPS and CDS1 were on Mana which significantly help the performance.

John

quote:

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People are referring to the black nextel ring that occupies the circumfrance of the CDS1 metal hub

---

I just looked again at my cdi and see what you mean. It appears to be coating of some sort. Surely there must be a way to renew the coating rather than scrap the hub when worn, no?? Any chemists in the crowd?

Richard

a 52 first i think.

but when i bought my system, i listened to a cds1 and my current system doesnt even come within sight of the almighty great CDS1.

but then the CDS1 is out of production and lack of parts means it's virtually on borrowed legs.

shahreza

quote:

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This is not the nextel ring in question.

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Stackowax:

I stand corrected. Just not paying enough attention. The Nextel ring is as you indicate the irreplacable part of the transport that wears as you use the machine.

It is my understanding that pre-mature wear can be ameliorated by not allowing the transport to run excessively with the display indicating "ERR". Better to stop and correct the problem with the disc, by cleaning or using the 2 ring puck. A conversation I had with someone at NANA indicated to me that old CDS1's that are being upgraded may eventually be parted out to re-use the used nextel rings when their supply of new ones is used up.

I imagine it will be some years before this becomes a serious problem, and there is always the alternative of a CDS2 head unit upgrade.

Arthur Bye