hi,

as i find the Proac D15 too bright and foreward sounding i want your advice.

- my room is about 26 sqmetres
- my gear is: cdx2/xps2/nac202/hicap2/nap200/napsc
- fraim
- listening mainly to rock

well, what do you suggest?

Zep,
Firstly, how much are you looking to spend?
Steve O.

zep that is one main reason I bought Spendors at my dealer's advice. Takes teh edge off but I don't find them slow. I have the classic series 2/3 there is a new series of floor stand type that are getting great reviews

quote:

Originally posted by zep:
well, what do you suggest?

Buy better sounding CDs. Most of those CDs are mixed extremely bright and that's how they're going to sound. Many will say "well, if you're system is together, everything will sound good". Maybe that's true. All I know is, there are quite a few people here complaining about brightness.

I think that part of the problem is listening too LOUD. People have gotten used to IPODs and ear-splitting volume. Most hifi systems are not up to playing rock music at really loud levels. Anyway - believe who you want and what you want, but eventually, you'll come around.

Source first? The CD is the source. Nothing in the chain can improve crap.

quote:

Many will say "well, if you're system is together, everything will sound good". Maybe that's true.

It is true.
But *sounding good* is subjective, I think.

Any decent hifi systems reveal the deficiency in the software, but if it's so distorted and bright and unlistenable, most often there's a problem in a system set up.

And I have noticed that a Naim system is prone to brightness more so than others.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:
But *sounding good* is subjective, I think.

You got that right. I used to listen to Hendrix on Heil Rock Monitors. I thought it sounded good. Now it would kill me.

If it's too loud, you are too old.

True. Actually, I would like loud music if I had the space. If I listened to rock, I would probably go with the reissued Voice of the Theatre speakers and some Manley 250's or something like that. The big horn in the Altec's, IMO, are more suitable for reproduction of rock music than most of the speakers people use. Although most of the records were probably mixed on Yamaha NS10m speakers. They were nice too.

Curious.

You don't think those speakers/systems are suited for any other genre?

If so, why?

I haven't heard Yamaha or Altec, so I have no reference to above systems.

My Spendor 3/5s sound great with my CDX2 front end. I do hope to one day upgrade my speakers into the Harbeth line, say the Monitor 30s.

Hi Zep,

My system is identical to your system.

I have Credos and absolutely love them. They are never harsh sounding, or "too forward" in presentation.

I've had them about 6 years and it would take something phenomenal to come along before I'd consider changing them.

Enjoy your music,

Rob

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:
Curious.

You don't think those speakers/systems are suited for any other genre?

If so, why?

I haven't heard Yamaha or Altec, so I have no reference to above systems.

The Altec may well be suited towards other styles of music, although without a proper tweeter, it may not deliver the delicate highs many have come to expect from an "audiophile" quality speaker. Nevertheless, with it's horn-loaded 15 and giant midrange/tweeter horn, it is eminently suited towards high-volume rock. It's also extremely efficient. Personally, when I hear certain people talking about liking loud rock, I think they'd probably be happier with a speaker like that than what they're using.

The Yamaha was a nice little 2-way with a 6" woofer and a tweeter. For some reason, it became, and probably still is, the mainstay of nearly every recording studio in the world. Go figure. You should try a pair just for kicks. I personally did like them on all kinds of music. Of course, they would not play loudly enough for high-volume rock, but you can sit 3 feet from them and you'll get a really nice sound. Search the web for pictures of recording studios and you'll see them on the console with their white woofers. The big speakers are just to impress the clients. The mix is done on the Yamahas.

Did you ever try the NS10 in your Naim system? While it has a lively sound the +6dB peak at 1-2kHz is dominating the sound (combined with the bad integration at the crossover frequency, there's a 120degee phase error and a real dip). Normally I never bother with technical data - but those "errors" are so large they really define the sound of these little speakers. Everything tend to sound the same.

Chayro,

Having been in a few recording/mixing studios and worked with *commercial* engineer ( not one of those esoteric audiophile lebels ) , we always have to EQ a decent mix with a SLM (Shitty Little Monitor) so that the final product sounds okey with a consumer's usual shitty playback device.

I don't think Yamaha is an industry standard per se. An engineer told me they can pretty much work with anything so long as they are familiar with the speaker's sonic characteristics. And all he looks for really is a decent midrange in speakers he uses.

I already use a pair of pro monitor used in studios. i.e. WATT 6.

I believe they are used at the Skywalker studio amongst others. Altho, this hardly indicates speaker's merit as large studios are likely to get a solicitation from any number of high-end speaker manufactures for a PR purpose.

Nevermind the speakers.
I always thought one of those digital EQ thingy on the fly was so cool. .
The trebles are too hot?
Wanna add some reverves and soundstage? No problem, just EQ it and make it nicer whilst you are playing! ( it's basically a uber tone control )

Like playing God, really.

Hi Zep,

I would suggest that you audition a lot of speakers until you find the model that works for you. As I own a lot of rock recordings, both on CD and vinyl, I went through a similar experience. I've owned speakers from Dynaudio, Spendor, Harbeth amongst others and auditioned a large number of other brands. Even within a single brand, you might find a variety of traits. I auditioned three different ProAc models at home and in the end, none of them worked for me. The treble was fine on the Response 1sc and the Studio 110, but I wasn't thrilled with the way the bass integrated with my room. The Studio 100 worked much better in my room, but the top end induced listening fatigue. However, I would not have guessed that these would have been the results based on the listening sessions conducted at the dealer's showroom.

The trick for me was finding a speaker that integrated well with my room that wasn't too laid back with enough energy in the midrange to do rock recordings justice, but not so forward or bright to induce listening fatigue. I'm glad that I did not settle for something that did not truly meet my needs. What works for one person might be all wrong for you. The only way to know is to listen for yourself. If you search hard enough you'll find a speaker that works for you.

Best of luck,
Bill

I have a pair of 1964 JBL Apollo's that uses the similar type of high efficiency magnets as the old Altec's mentioned by Chayro. They sound great with all kinds of music. I got it from a very knowledgeable dealer in Shanghai who stocks all sorts of vintage era electronics. These pre-1973 JBL's, like the Altec's of that era, have Alnico magnets that are worlds better than the ferrite magnets in most speakers manufactured today. These alnico magnets were very expensive to manufacture compared to ferrite magnets. I believe the higher end Tannoy's also use this type of magnets.

The bass from these speakers (with 15" woofers) are effortless and smooth. They sound like they come from way back in the room and is more often felt more than heard, even at low volume. It is a very satisfying type of sound and totally unlike the hard fatiguing type of bass from most speakers. I have heard an old Altec playing Karajan's LP recording of Suppe's Light Horse Cavalry Overture in a very small room. The horns and crescendo of the Berlin Philharmonic were just glorious and non-fatiguing. They certainly rocked the house down. I also listen to rock, jazz, any kind of music through these speakers. My Naim gear might still sound a bit bright on some thinly recorded CD's, but in the most part, they sound extremely musical and satisfying.

I believe JBL recently reincorporated these Alnico magnets into their top of the line K2 speakers. You might want to give them a listen. Compared to the polite British sound, JBL's rock!

Zep, have a lok at Chayro and Kuma's initial posts again, about software and setup.

Before spending on another pair of speakers, I'd take a careful look at what in your installation could be contributing to the forward brightness you find unattractive. What floor do you have? Do you have lots of soft furnishings or curtains in the room? Where are you speakers position in relation ot he rear and side walls etc. Adjusting any or all of these variables could achieve exactly what you want...

Cheers

Mike

ZEP,

I do not think your speakers are that ruthless but I do think your CD player is. Many people find the CDX2 a difficult listen.

I would suggest Spendors. They have been known to work miracles in terms of making musical sound from tightly wound Naim systems.

Best,
Moss

hi,

yes. i have to give spendor an audition, maybe the 8th.

my room is quite well damped with heavy curtains and a large bookshelf.

clapping my hands do not give an echo.

i do not listen only to rock, also elliot smith, jeff buckley, tom mcrae, ryan adams, beck, damien rice.

d15 behave very well on acoustic music (guitars).

cheers

Why You wouldn't try Totem speakers? I run Totem Arros in my little room with CDx2/202/200 combo and I'm having very fun them... In Your room Forest could work well...

-Arto