Please allow me to educate you on the following point.If you take the time and trouble and visit a proffesional recording studio(Mana supplies Pink Floyd and recently got an acknowledgement from James Gutherie from the release of Roger Waters In The Flesh)you will find that speakers are generally mounted at least 6 ft high.

If they are still there the Pye Recording Studio in Bryranston St.London had their speakers also at this height when I was there during the production of the music to the wedding of Prince Charles and Diana.

I will concede that your own choice of speakers may well suffer from the very problem that you mention but as someone who has spent a considerable amount of time listening to this system I can assure you that you could not be more wrong regards your post.

As your post was written in ignorence no problem(unless you have demo-ed J,W,s).

Whats with the bass boom you describe because its the first I,ve heard from ANYONE who has listened to this system in the enviroment portrayed in the picture

As for decor is freedom of expression a crime?Not to your taste or mine......So What.Who,s going to start critising the looks of forum members wifes?

The mini table that the deck rests on is chromed and was to give the customer CHOICE in what finish was available.It may not be important to you but IMHO choice is important to the consumer.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year and keep buying more Naim.

festive hooch

[This message was edited by redbug on TUESDAY 19 December 2000 at 07:32.]

Thanks for the correction. I'm a simple mathematician and not a 'real world' physicist. I don't think about observers much.

Cheers
Jonathan

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Please allow me to educate you on the following point.If you take the time and trouble and visit a proffesional recording studio(Mana supplies Pink Floyd and recently got an acknowledgement from James Gutherie from the release of Roger Waters In The Flesh)you will find that speakers are generally mounted at least 6 ft high.

If they are still there the Pye Recording Studio in Bryranston St.London had their speakers also at this height when I was there during the production of the music to the wedding of Prince Charles and Diana.

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I thought it was "common knowledge" that most "professional recording studios" mounted monitor speakers high against the wall to:

1. Save the engineer's brain from being fried by "Professional studio monitor" tweeter attack, thus enabling him to work for more than 2 hours at a stretch.

2. Produce oodles of overwhelmingly flabby bass for reggae clients.

3. Save space.

One shouldn't forget that this is the same "professional" environment which states that:

1. It's OK to feed your master tape machine with 50m of assorted cables stuck in a patch pay.

2. If it's digital, it must be good and that's that, so...

3. The best way to get the album to the mastering suite is on DAT tape.

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Who,s going to start critising the looks of forum members wifes?

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Nobody on this forum.

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The mini table that the deck rests on is chromed and was to give the customer CHOICE in what finish was available.It may not be important to you but IMHO choice is important to the consumer.

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Yes indeed, Mana are renowned for their huge variety of finishes offered to each & every customer. Following the recent buyout, we can no doubt expect to see the "Phase 7 Rainbow Pack" any day now, possibly with free "Accolyte" shatterproof dark glasses.

Seriously festive:

Mark

(I still don't like this
software very much)

This would be great. We could spend the next few years discussing the sonic properties of different colour and texture finishes of Mana products ... and probably little else!!

Oh death, where is thy sting?

Jonathan
'Somewhere over the rainbow...'

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We could spend the next few years discussing the sonic properties of different colour and texture finishes

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Like the variously coloured snaics?

cheers

Nigel

Hope this helps and Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Festive hooch

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It is common knowledge that the speakers used in the picture of J.W,s are studio monitors.....namely ATC 100,s which are not the same as domestic hi-fi speakers which from your profile you use.

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Hooch: Yes, I knew these were ATC's. When I first saw this post on the Mana Forum it seems to me that JW took a bit of good natured ridicule for the set up. He also had some resolute defenders in the process.

At the time I had stumbled on a used Mana reference table and was impressed. I wanted to know more, maybe buy more, and started lurking in the Mana Forum. Imagine my restraint when I saw his post which, at least initially, showed a set- up that flew in the face on conventional wisdom.

I think if you showed this photograph to most standard fare audiophiles the reaction would be similar to mine. Boxing reflex speakers into a corner and setting tweeters up in the sky are not generally regarded as the proper thing to do, even with studio monitors. I think what bothered me the most was that the reflex port appears to be at ear height. I've never heard ATC's as they are pretty rare in the US. I have heard that they can do wonders, but his set up still appeared to be a bit much. I think that JW even acknowledged that that one speaker was not in the perfect situation.

In the end I ordered a four tier, then a five tier with a bunch of soundstages as well, so I couldn't have been that set off.

As for his decor and any cosmetic attentions to Mana I have no care one way or the other; as long as there is no impairment to the music. I happen to like the black. I think it matches well with Naim. If anyone wants chrome, red or rainbow thats their business.

I would also note that since his original post I've been much more curious about ATC's as it seems to me that they would be defying the laws of physics to sound as good as everyone claims despite what most would describe as a compromised set-up.

No disrespect for JW is/was intended. In fact I think it's nice that he can be so open and honest about his products that he is willing to subject himself to such admonitions. It's partly why I ended up buying more product. That and the fact that it works as advertised. There are not that many manufacturers that are willing to undertake such scrutiny.

JW definitely dances to the tune of a different drummer. Let's all hope it stays that way with the new merger.

Regards and happy holidays,

Arthur Bye

The combination of Naim electronics,ATC,s and Mana have a synergy that I have found to date unrivaled.To prevent redicule if Naim had a speaker that eclipsed the ATC I,d buy it and the NBL is IMHO a jolly good effort.

Thankyou for your reply and may I take this opportunity to wish you and all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Festive hooch

Flabby bass?ATC bass drivers are so good that Naim use them in their DBL,s.

Were you aware that Naim use the same colour scheme as Mana?

No problem with a predudice against sunglasses as I,ve a predudice against idiots that make unsubstantiated posts due to ignorence.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Festive hooch

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Mark Ellis are you being serious?

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Not particularly, as it happens... however:

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Which recording studio are you refering to.Does not sound very proffessional to me.Where are they based?Can you substantiate your description of said recording studio.

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I was referring to general attitudes towards quality inferred or directly expressed by whole swathes of the pro-audio profession, and occasionally (fortunately) railed against by others in the same sphere. There are many examples, and in particular I would refer you to three which communicate the general thrust of the problem:

1. The many studio installations illustrated on pages reachable from the "pro" section of the Dynaudio site.

2. The correspondence between Bernie Grundman and "Stereophile", expressing his frustration with the fact that a large proportion of the material received for mastering by his company arrived on DAT, thereby severely restricting the final quality of the product. This may be available from the Stereophile site, along with MC's famous PRaT article together with which it forms the bulk (IMHO) of the material published by this magazine which was worth the ink.

3. Paul White in "Sound on Sound" vol 10 issue 5, answering a reader's query on choosing equipment for his new studio:
"Studio monitors and power amplifiers tend not to be so critically selected as hi-fi components... because studio engineers tend to put their faith in good engineering rather than chase some elusive, esoteric ideal",
and:
"...it's safe to say that the choice of speakers will have a far more significant effect on the sound than your amplifier"

Plus, of course, there are a lot of CDs for sale out there which sound as if they have been recorded / produced / mastered / manufactured by people with exactly these attitudes. The releases from the Naim label are some of the examples available of how much better things can get if you do it right.

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Flabby bass?ATC bass drivers are so good that Naim use them in their DBL,s.

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Absolutely. If you read my post you will find no criticism of ATC – Mr. Woodman is reputedly a fine keyboard player too. However, component selection is only part of the story, and it is the use of the chosen part within a coherent design which seems to make or break the success of a product. Naim also use Philips CD drives, and manage to make much better use of the inherent strengths of the component than do Philips themselves – again, the implementation appears to be the deciding factor.

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Were you aware that Naim use the same colour scheme as Mana?

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Yes indeed. I'm sure both companies have similar aims with regard to consistency of production, and a single colour choice facilitates this in both cases. Again, if you read my post, you will see that I was not criticising the choice of colour, only your (apparent!) contention that all Mana customers were offered a chrome finish as an option.

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No problem with a predudice against sunglasses as I,ve a predudice against idiots that make unsubstantiated posts due to ignorence.

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Er, yes.
...my sincerest apologies if I gave this impression.

Best;

Mark

(I still don't like this
software very much)

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I congratulate you on a dam fine reply to my post.Very imformative and educational.Regards the various points you raise I agree.

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…so I can take that as an apology for being called an "ignorent" idiot, can I?

(festive is as festive does)

Best;

Mark

(I still don't like this
software very much)

What,s wrong with the software?

festive hooch

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What,s wrong with the software?

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It seems to have this annoying glitch where apostrophes are replaced by commas and the spaces after punctuation disappear.

Joe