Maybe my comment was a bit uncouth about the Chord, because it does have a pretty flat frequency respones. It maybe better to descibe the bass as very slightly bloated. That said, where do you want me start with Naim CD players and others, they are hardly perfect frequency response machines.
[...] the Chord, because it does have a pretty flat frequency respones. It maybe better to descibe the bass as very slightly bloated. That said, where do you want me start with Naim CD players and others, they are hardly perfect frequency response machines.
Dear PR,
I find that even a "hint" of bloat in the bass IS totally ruinous from the start, and only becomes more tiresome as time goes on, so I guess the Chord should not be on my listening list when the time comes one day to change my old CDS 2.
But one thing is for sure, I have no idea how you could tell in the domestic setting whether any component has a ruler flat frequency response because every listening space gets a different response according to dimensions, construction materials, decoration and furnishing - let alone equipment placing. Something fundamental like a bass boost is very hard to get rid of without other side unfortunate effects. I have always maintained that there is a range (if you like call it a small deviation from ruler flat in the frequency response) that is totally acceptable, so long as the results gets the musical balance right.
Naim among others does seem to unlock the music for me, and you are quite right to say that what is right for any individual is subjective, but so surely is you line in the sand about £800 being the point where it becomes subjective. Would your implication be that all is objective below this figure? Or are you saying that this is what you paid for your DAC and above this there is nothing that is actually better, but only more expensive? If that is the case clearly a CDS3 can be no better than a CDX 2. I am not sure that is not almost wilfully subjective on your part. What is certain is that the law of diminishing returns applies, and that benefits become more expensive to obtain the further up the pecking order you get!
Ironically, in the light of what I wrote about the merest hint of bloat in the bass, even my set will let me know when the engineer has warmed the sound world up a bit in this or that recording, but I think this may be wondering of into the farthest reaches of subjectivity land...
I think all posts souuld come with a disclaimer on subjective perceptions as standard. Wouldn't want people to think that some threads are opinion and others are fact!
As to the threshold of subjectivity - I think this should start at £0.01. How can anyone possibly hear anything through my ears? The law of diminishing returns applies of course, but I think it's got a bit blurred here.
Being a pedantic git, I should point out that the original question was about how best to get to a CDS3. Never hurts to take a broad view but possibly doesn't apply to such a narrow question? But that wouldn't be much fun would it?
Cheers
Harry
Posts: 2561 | Location: Somerset, SW England | Registered: Wed 08 May 2002
quote:Originally posted by sideshowbob: I'd just like to mention that IME the Chord DAC64 doesn't have bloated bass in the slightest.
It did in my rig. Altho, its polarity is reversed ( nice, it doesn't tell you in the manual! ), so if it's hooked up wrong it makes it worse.
Even properly connected, a DAC64 was a sleeper in my rig. It timed fair and had a spacious midband, but I couldn't deal with the bloomy bottom. Various buffer settings also made it worse. Ironic that bypassing it was the best to retain a firmer bass.
But this is the trouble with most DAC/transport thing. Just too many variables depending on a digital cable/transport.
quote:Originally posted by Lowcap: The cds3 seems to be the one to aim for, but would it make sense to (1)get cdx2 then later (2) add power supply and finally at some future stage (3) upgrade cdx2 for cds3, keeping power supply? I suppose what I am really asking is how good is CDX2? Would appreciate comments.
I did this and enjoyed every step. You have the electronics to feel the differences. It makes sense, if you can't stretch to CDS3 immediately. I don't know your speakers. You'll double your pleasure, if you change to naim speakers after reaching point 3.
Emil
Posts: 1287 | Location: Sofia | Registered: Sat 07 December 2002
To answer your questions conclusively is impossible. You should do you own homework and come to your own conclusion. The fact remains, a professional DAC costing £800 will take Lowcap's Meridian transport to 'subjective' levels of performance. I can only ask you to try and report?
Doug
Why would I want to go to the Meridian forum?
Now you have given me an opportunity. Let’s just say this for the record, the Meridian G8 runs the CDS3/XPS2 rather close for £4000 less. The fact an £800 studio DAC tramples the G8, is another matter of fact.
I do like the sport obviously (when the forum is fun), rather than encouraging people to use the Sale of Goods Act. You choose what you prefer. It's ultimately in your interests to listen to opinion, before it bites you on the bum.
JonR
I didn't know there was one either? I don't think a Meridian user would diss Naim. It seems that Naim users are perplexed with purchase dissatisfaction, and need to desperately justify their equipments performance/price. It's refreshing when a Naim user doesn't think he has the best system, but realises there are other alternatives clearly superior or equal. It would keep this forum more dynamic, leading to me and others returning more often in the search of excellent music reproduction and advice. Maybe this is the wrong place?
quote:Originally posted by PR: Now you have given me an opportunity. Let’s just say this for the record, the Meridian G8 runs the CDS3/XPS2 rather close for £4000 less. The fact an £800 studio DAC tramples the G8, is another matter of fact.
I do like the sport obviously (when the forum is fun), rather than encouraging people to use the Sale of Goods Act. You choose what you prefer. It's ultimately in your interests to listen to opinion, before it bites you on the bum.
JonR
I didn't know there was one either? I don't think a Meridian user would diss Naim. It seems that Naim users are perplexed with purchase dissatisfaction, and need to desperately justify their equipments performance/price. It's refreshing when a Naim user doesn't think he has the best system, but realises there are other alternatives clearly superior or equal. It would keep this forum more dynamic, leading to me and others returning more often in the search of excellent music reproduction and advice. Maybe this is the wrong place?
PR,
You're not suggesting that your statement that the G08 runs the CDS3/XPS2 close for 4 grand less is a matter of fact are you? Don't get me wrong, I believe it to be an entirely valid statement, provided you qualify it by saying it is your own subjective opinion, and then allow others to express theirs even though it's highly likely, this being a Naim forum, that their opinions will differ from your own.
And no, I don't think you've come to the wrong place to learn more about excellent music reproduction and advice as you put it. I have learnt a helluva lot since joining this Forum, as much from you as from anyone else around here. I think where people might consider themselves 'provoked' as Harry succintly puts it is when you try to pass off opinion as fact.
This is just my subjective opinion but on a brief listen to a G08 (this is the new one with the new styling yes?) was just bloody awful in an all Meridian system. I couldn't think of a better endorsement for their earlier gear (which I thought was a bit special).
The only thing anyone can take away from this is that I didn't like the G08. That's the thing about subjectivity. It could be a very fine player but to my ears, it doesn't give anything a run for any money and would be a waste of rack space.
Cheers
Harry
Posts: 2561 | Location: Somerset, SW England | Registered: Wed 08 May 2002
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Topic Closed
), so if it's hooked up wrong it makes it worse. 
