I have read about TT isolation and know I don't have the ideal setup being the 6th and top level of my Fraim. I did do a search thru forums about wall shelfs, but also came upon the Neuance info. So thought I'd try their shelf as a first step in getting the most of my P5.

I have an old 40s apartment in Los angeles off a busy street 2nd floor. At least I hear the rumblings of trucks, Harleys and fire engines. My Fraim is set up in the corner of the room and isn't bothered by walking around, tho I don't clop around like my neighbor next door. She's some kind of buffalo at times up and down the stairs. I do feel creaking in the middle areas when I walk, but that's under heavy padding and regular carpet. I know not ideal

So what are yoose guy's experiences with Nuanace? and what kind of shelf if I go that route.

I've read about the mana being lively.

I've seen a Quadrespire shelf online, of course with exemplary comments.

Only read references to the Target VW1, Apollo WT1, Phonosophie, and a Rega, but it's not on their website that I found.

I could put a wall shelf in at a bit higher than the 6th level that would let me put my CDP on top and give a space under then 82 under that.

On installation: does a shelf allow for variable stud spacing on the metal back brace? as I'm sure my old apartment isn't up to the latest code. Tho I do know it has fire blocking cross members which might add stability as it's not a load bearing wall I don't believe.

Wolf.

I don't know about your P5, for an LP12, Mana wall shelf is it.

Neuance aftermarket shelf comes in handy,too.
I haven't tried it under my turntable, but many number of folks seem to be very happy with theirs.

They are convenient, too since they don't go out a tune. ( nothing sounds worse than an out of tune Mana. Some use the Nuance shelf instead of a Mana glass since it is a set and forget.

I have had a bad experience with a wall shelf. I wouldn't recommend it and the Rega one sounds awful.

Top shelf of FRAIM will sound better than 95% of other supports IMHO.

Rega needs a lightweight support. I would think FRAIM is puuurfect.

I have my p9 on the top shelf of an Audiophile Starbase support. Sounds great.

If it aint broke, don't fix it

Hi Wolf,

Since you are so close to a busy street with heavy vehicles it is likely that low frequency vibrations will reach your TT and effect performance. I had issues with low frequency vibration from a nearby railway, which led me to one of the best tweaks I've done. I hung a shelf from the ceiling above my rack and placed my LP12 on it.

It's not as daft as it seems as you also get the added benefit of the shelf being able to twist slightly which takes up the twisting force from the inertial moment of the platters rotation, i.e. dissipates unwanted energy.

Best Regards,
Mark Dunn

wolf

you should buy the rega shelf. it's also quite cheap (and avail. in black OR white).


kuma

i have been thinking about a wall shelf too but the linn manual states that the board on the shelf should NOT be connected with the shelf due to the large mass of wall (sound reasonable).

did you experiment with other wal shelfes?

and: doesn't the shelf change the sonic signature (a bit towards lean and light?).

can you walk towards your player without a modulation in sound (with the LP12 being on the shelf)?

thanks,chr.

Christian,

An efficacy of a wall shelf probably depends on the construction of the wall.

If it's made of flimsy dry wall, it is not a good thing.

Mine are bolted to a thick fireplace brick wall attached to a 12" exterior brick wall. So, it is relatively independent from the floor movement.

If I attached the shelf to any of the interior dry wall, I don't think I"ve gotten the same excellent results.

No. I haven't tried any other wall shelf but the Mana but moving the table from the Quadra rack to a shelf-mount rack had a significant improvement as changing arm and a cartridge.

I've tried lots of supports under my P9 - I even put the deck in a Corian plinth and used Solid Tech's Feet of Silence: this worked very well on a Corian wall shelf, but in the end it just looked too awkward. I've not tried the Nuanace because it is not easily available for a trial in England.

So after all these experiments. I've ended up with it on the top shelf of a Fraim (base + 3 shelves), but, of course, I couldn't leave it just like that - so I have one of Max Townshends new seismic sinks between it and the Fraim. It sounds great to me and the turntable is unaffected by the police helicopter which flies over the house most nights and causes everything to vibrate.



You don't have to pump this one up by the way. According to Max The Seismic Sink comprises a spring bellows air damped variable Q suspension system suspending a vibration eliminating constrained layer mass damped isolation platform that is placed under your equipment. Vibrations present in the supporting surface are prevented from reaching the equipment due to the filtering action of the suspension units, just as the suspension smoothes out the ride of a motor car. In addition, any residual air borne vibration is absorbed in the constrained layer damped surface. The unique suspension system incorporates a variable Q resistive air damping system that functions as a very high Q mass/spring system that has exceptional isolation above the 3Hz system resonance for the optimum vibration isolation when handling micro vibrations where the damping is virtually zero. When the system is disturbed, the damping immediately increases to a very high level to kill unwanted oscillation so the system rapidly comes to rest, reverting to the high Q state.

Please don't ask me to explain what that means, but IMO it does work. I'm not sure the deck needs to be on top of the fraim and if I get a power supply for my CDX2 then I may rearrange things to vacate a shelf. I'm sure others will think I'm mad. I'm sure somebody will ask me to post a picture of my current set-up, but I prefer not to post pictures on the Internet.

What I would say is that you really need to try before you buy. I have a dealer who lets me do just that. What works for me may not work for others, but I am very happy with my Seismic Sink.

All the best, Rotf

Thanks guys, I heard from Ken who makes the Neuance he certainly is scientific about his approach to making the shelf. I'm going to give that a try first, and easy to test it A/B.

I'm hesitant to drill holes willy nilly in my plaster and lath walls. I did that mounting a wood bar light above the area and finding the studs was tricky even with a stud finder. Even tho they can be patched when I leave,(which may be never with my rent controlled situation) I'd have to see some actual installations and test an A/B.

Besides, that means I can move my CDP up one level which opens me up to the potential of getting a top loader like a CDS3. Which is a dire thing for my bank account as I don't even have an XPS2 yet.

I'm actually lucky that I don't have too much bounce in my floor. Walking around I've never had the arm skip. Traffic is more an annoyance than vibration problem. And putting the TT on a shelf would mean a bit higher elevation and make the whole corner look really messy. I'm trying to keep it really neat with clean lines. Another option is to try putting the TT back onto the solid heavy wood coffee table which is a 2 man job to move. I guess a good test to do today just for fun. Paul Simon and Ricki Lee here I come.

Oh these multiplying black boxes and set up problems, I can see why a number of guys are scaling back down. But I'm quite happy with what I've acheived in the sound I get. I also heard back from the Mana importer that they have no more shelves as Mana is gone now. I'd have to find one on Ebay. And my P5 was chosen for being a plug and play. I didn't want to spend a huge amount for a TT which would extract every last ounce of drama tho I did hear a Michel Gyro at my dealer's 2 years ago and it was playing jazz and the notes were just floating around in the air easy and natural with that addictive deep black background. How much that was TT or Quad speakers is difficult to say. I had to leave pretty fast as my hand was reaching for my credit card and the Gyro lulled me into a mesmerizing state of instant comsumer gratification.

I was having a chat to the guy from Quadraspire at the recent Hi-Fi Show at Heathrow and he had the Wall Shelf with the Reference (acrylic bog seat) platform on display.

He was saying how most wall shelves are rigid and fixed very firmly to the wall and basically become an extension thereof. He said that this was a bad thing as vibrations would travel through the house and the wall and to the shelf.

The wobbly Quadraspire shelf decouples the turntable from the wall, effectively filtering out most of the energy before it arrives at the turntable.

This seems to fly in the face of popular opinion, as 'light and rigid' is the normal mantra.

What Christian says about the Linn manual seems to bear this out, although I thought that they felt that the Linn's suspension should be adequate enough to deal with unwanted external energy and don't advocate it being mounted on isolation shelves. The unsuspended Rega should benefit from this type of arrangement, I would have thought, but I am no expert.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
I'm sure somebody will ask me to post a picture of my current set-up

>>I already did in another thread...

but I prefer not to post pictures on the Internet.

>>> I understand. Could you email me some pictures of your TT, the P-75 and the Karat? dobbelsteen@mac.com
I need some advice as well so pls drop me a line.

All the best, Rotf

all the best, daddycool

Hi Christian and everyone,

Using a wall shelf with an LP12 is not a problem and is better than having it dancing all over the room when you have a springy floor. If the shelves are just rested rested on the brackets - not screwed to them then you would not couple the shelf and LP12 to wall.

The other alternative is a Trampolin which works under these circumstances,

Frank

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
I've not tried the Nuanace because it is not easily available for a trial in England.
All the best, Rotf

Rotf - I wouldn't let the shipping deter you, although I don't know about duty you may have to pay. I use a Neuance under my CDX2 and it has made the listening experience even more enjoyable. I've not tried it with a TT, but Ken offers a 30 day money back. It's very light, so shipping shouldn't be too much money. Worth a try. Even if you don't like it under the TT, I'll bet you'll keep it under your CD, or sell it at full price, to someone who will love it.

well I splurged again. Am I out of control?

I ordered the Neuance platform but it won't get here till mid December, I read all the info on his website. Neuance And the talk with him was great.

Then today I got antsy yet again. And since I can't get my hands on a Acromat 3mm for my P5 they do make a whole platter that is 14mm thick that replaces the Rega P5 or P3 glass platter. That should be here in a few days by UPS. It was about twice what teh achromt was but it is a whole lot thicker of the same supossedly wonderful material. Acroplat from The Needle Dr in Minneapolis MN. I"ve nver heard of them, but they look like good suppliers in the States of lots of equipment and kit.

So first I'll test the platter and then the Neuance shelf. Both seem to do isolation and I hope make the most of my P5. Some would say just get a more expensive TT (LP12) but I don't want to at this point. Someday I might upgrade, but it's not even in the cards right now beyond what I'm doing.

Wish me luck.

glenn