What's the best way to record from the radio?

I have a NAT01 but no current recording capability, so am open to all ideas. I'm particularly interested in being able to record live classical performances.

TIA, David

A good cassette deck?

Paul

The NAT01 probably has a similar nominal voltage output to the Prefix, i.e. quite a bit less than a standard 2V CD player. In the past I have taken the audio signal out of the Prefix's p/s directly into a yamaha audio CD-recorder with suprisingly little loss of fidelity. CDs so made have a sonic footprint that uncanninly represents staight vinyl- i.e. the CD-R versions of selected albums are far superior to the domestic CD releases of the same. Even though the voltage output of the Prefix is maybe 3-5 dB less than optimal input levels of the CD-recorder and as such is probably sacrificing 3-5 dB of dynamic range. I am yet to try putting the CD-recorder into the 552 tape loop pathway, which may turn out toe be superior to a direct feed of the NAT01 into the CD-recorder.

And remember, use the best CD-Rs that you can lay a cheque card upon.

Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo

Paul - would a good CD recorder not be more useful than a cassette, in that it would be easier to transfer recordings to a PC, and then to an ipod, or something similar? I've never used a CD-R, so I don't know how good they are in practice, or how they compare against a mini-disc, for example. Or is there a good solution to link a PC directly to the amplifier output - if so, how is this actually accomplished?

Ron - I am a little technically challenged so have had to read your post several times - are you suggesting that I could just route the output from the NAT01 directly to a CD recorder, rather than routing it though my amplifier, and that even if the volume of the recording is lower, the overall quality might be good?

Thanks for your replies - please keep 'em coming.

I'm just not sure what a "good CD recorder" is...
You mention iPods (I have one BTW and it's great), but there is a difference between recording for MP3, and recording for replay on your main system (you did ask for "the best way to record from radio").
Regarding recording into PC, your PC may well have stereo phono input sockets, if so, then all you need is a cable; if not you'll need a sound card with some (as with hi-fi, there are cheap soundcards and there are good ones).

Paul

My guess is that if you like to record live classical music, the 45 minutes typically available from cassette is to little.

I would like to record some late night radio programs myself (the favorite one goes on for three hours!) so a CD recorder isn't enough either. It's not meant to be kept for ever either, just to listen through once.

I could of course hook up an old PC and record to the hard disk, but as I work with computers all day I don't want to destroy my enjoyment of music with something that might remind me of the salt mine.

A Real to Real would be nice (and impressive looking in the music room). I have an old Revox G36, but it's a bit nackered, I'm thinking of a newer TEAC. Wonder what they might cost nowadays?

Just some dribble from me on the subject.

JohanR

Paul -- I suppose I'm looking for the best of both worlds - i.e. to be able to make recordings which can be played back through my main system, and also be a convenient way of getting transferring the music to a PC (and thence to an ipod).

When you say I'm just not sure what a "good CD recorder" is..., do you mean that such a thing doesn't exist?

Cheers, David

I used a hi-fi video recorder whenever I needed to record long programmes - with the added benefit of an accurate timer. You just need to connect it up via audio in/out sockets or suitable pins on the SCART.

I use a DAT recorder (Tascam DA20 MKII)to record a lot of concerts from Radio 3 and the quality is superb. You can get upto 3 hours of uninterrupted full 16bit 48Khz recording or 6 hours if you run at half speed (14bit 32KHz)- not tried this so don't know how much the quality suffers. The machines are more expensive than CD recorders as they never really took off in the consumer market and the media is a bit more expensive than a good CDR (though it is re-writeable and data grade DATs are cheaper than ones sold specifically for audio use - I can't detect any difference in quality). The long recording time makes DAT a lot more practical for recording concerts than CDR.

How about using a stand-alone audio cd-recorder/hard disc recorder?

Several on the market, a Yamaha model has gotten great reviews, and there is a "pro" model who's name escapes me at the moment (Alessis or something close) that also has received good press. Both run around US 1000. Gives you the flexibilty of recording to hard drive, editing, and then burning to cd. Connects to an audio system just like a cd recorder or cassette deck.

Jeff A

Hi DJH
I do exactly what you ask for on a regular basis. I really love late night radio - Radio 2 after about 10pm on some nights and Radio 3 after about 10pm through the week (Late Junction is a great pogramme). However, my lifestyle does not let me listen to radio at those times. I considered all the alternatives and have ended up with a Magnum Dynalab radio feeding into my Naim system. It is then recorded onto a Nakamichi cassette deck - the RX-202E I think, the one that does auto-reverse by swinging the tape round - this avoids the azimuth problems encountered by conventional auto-reverse cassettes. I then end up with great in-car listening and walkie listening on my Sony Cassette Walkman Pro. The sound quality is great and very musical despite a little bit more hiss than listening to a CD but then again, does vinyl not have that little bit more hiss than CD and which one is more musical?
Anyway that is my two pennies worth!
Happy listening
Raphael

Those CD / hard disc recorders look the business - a quick google turns up a Sony model which looks to be reasonably good value.

Be careful with capacity claims/price - has to due with bit rates and reductions in quality of playback.

The "other" unit I was trying to think of was the Alesis Masterlink. I know a public broadcasting engineer who uses one of these for on-site live recording and raves about how good it was/is. The Alesis website is helpful explaining/giving comparisons of capacity and bit rates in a FAQ section as I recall. This is the machine Fremer (Stereophile) uses for archiving some vinyl/making tests cdrs - you should find a review of it in the archives at www.stereophile.com

Jeff A

[This message was edited by Jeff Anderson on Thu 27 May 2004 at 20:22.]

I think that you have to do a lot of reading between the lines with these digital recorders (ie. how good is the A/D conversion going to be?).
I haven't got one nor tried one, so I'm just wearing my Mr Sceptical hat.
However, I would expect that what came out of your Hi-Fi speakers from a digital recording would be a pale imitation of what was coming out of the Naim tuner (and possibly even horrible!).
What would be good (I guess) would be for you to try one first and see what you think. Naim, etc. dealers do home loans, but I don't know about these items.

Paul

If you are going to listen as you record, then the 80 mins available from CDR is pretty useful for e.g. live concerts or opera, which will provide intervals in which the CD can be changed.
A huge advantage is that track points can be inserted for direct access later.
While Videotape is handy because of the timers and the length of tape, subsequent access to particular pieces of music is very frustrating, and I don't think that video players for the car are going to take off at this late stage in the life of the VHS tape!

I use 100 min CDs and overburn them - far more useful for concerts, which typically go over 80 mins.

My radio recording rig consists of Quad FM4 -> Sugden preamp -> M-Audiophile USB external soundcard -> PC.

The tracks are recorded and edited using Adobe Audition (removal of unwanted material and occasionally noise, fade ins and outs etc) and then burned to CD (usually over-burned to 100 min CD). The results are generally excellent.

Ross

Well I ended up getting a Yamaha unit at a good ex-demo price, and am extremely impressed with it. The recording quality seems to me to be of excellent quality, whether played back directly off the hard disc, or through a CD burned by the unit and played through my main CD player. (CD replay through the Yamaha is of distinctly average quality only). I can record for hours, and then subsequently edit the broadcasts very easily, inserting track points, deleting unwanted breaks, coughing, etc. There is no compression involved. Highly recommended.

I regularly record from the radio, via Freeview TV onto my hard-drive PACE TWIN DIGITAL RECORDER.

As with VHS, events may be timed and it can record for as many hours as you want in quality that is allegedly better than DAB?

I then play back via my TV amp and speakers.

Easy peasy, and sounds excellent.

John.

John --

It only has 10 hours recording time on the hard disc. This is about four hours short of a full performance of Wagner's Ring cycle.

-- David

Hi David;

The hard-drive has 10 and a bit hours of TV recording space.

Many times that for radio. I've just checked it; and 5.5 hours of TV space that I have at the moment equates to 116 hours of radio space.

John.