I had to add this post as I have recently been impressed by how much more alive my TV sound is now I channel it through my Naim.

I have just bought a Blu Ray player and am impressed with this visually, so I thought I'd compare the sound on 2 identical Future Sound of London CDs:

1 through the Blu Ray costing 230
1 through my CDS+XPS costing substantially more

The direct immediate improvement isn't noticeable and I've made this mistake before; I couldn't pin-point precisely what made the CDS3 better, but I knew that extended listening sessions are necessary.

Just thought I'd post this as I am perplexed as to why quality differences are not immediately apparent (switching between pre-amp input 1 and input 6).

Regards,

Jon

"The direct immediate improvement isn't noticeable and I've made this mistake before;"

If you listen long enough you will convince yourself that the CDS/XPS is hugely better...

Many in the business discovered years ago that if you synch two copies of music and switch between them you'll hear virtually no difference. It doesn't matter if it's a lowly cassette deck vs. a high quality turntable. The results are the same with little differences perceived. I recall something about the brain's amazing ability to compensate and "correct" for discontinuities that do not make sense.

Stick with ten seconds played back on box A and immediately repeat the same ten seconds with box B.

regards,

dave

I have a CDS2/XPS2 and cringe when I put in anything else as a digital source....

I wish there wasn't much of a difference, but there definitely is!

BTW what bluray player are you talking about?

i have a pioneer elite bluray player and it sounds fantastic on cds.

i suspect the faster, more powerful chips used to process bluray benefit cd playback.

still, i think it would be more valid to play a whole cd, take a five minute break, then play the whole cd again using the other player.

if you do that, i would be most curious as to your result.

Hi Jon,

This may be relevant:

Multiple sources

...or maybe not.

Kind regards

Rob

I've asked the same question in the past and concluded that if you are actively listening for a difference you won't hear it, but if you just let the music flow, over a few days you realise that you prefer one source over another.

The reason is obvious.
The transport of the blueray is capable of reading a pit the size of a micropinhead travelling at 500,000 rev/min. Its bound to outperform a transport designed to read a pit onethirdpinhead in size travelling at 273 rev/min.

HI Jon & everybody


Have a go at this sine-wave speech test play the SWS file then the original speech file and then replay the SWS file and let me know what happens.

Sine Wave Speech

Then I'll explain why I think this is relative to A/B tests and how this helps you understand why A/B tests don't work.



Dean..

Just took the test. The SWS file sounded like a distorted human voice speaking several words, the speech file sounded like a normal voice speaking and forming a sentence. Replaying either file sounded just as it did the first time.

I didn’t understand the SWS file until I listened to the original on sample 1-4. However. I picked up a lot of sample 5 and 6 without listening to the original.

I recognised the nursery story on the second listen

quote:

Originally posted by DaveBk:
I've asked the same question in the past and concluded that if you are actively listening for a difference you won't hear it, but if you just let the music flow, over a few days you realise that you prefer one source over another.

I agree with this. I think sometimes the harder you listen for a difference sometimes, the less likely you are to hear one.

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:
i have a pioneer elite bluray player and it sounds fantastic on cds.

i suspect the faster, more powerful chips used to process bluray benefit cd playback.

still, i think it would be more valid to play a whole cd, take a five minute break, then play the whole cd again using the other player.

if you do that, i would be most curious as to your result.

i think this would be very instructive, unless this is a question that you don't want an answer for.

The quick A/B narrows down the choices...quickly.
Extended listenings simply confirm what I hear the first time.

quote:

Originally posted by Whizzkid:
HI Jon & everybody


Have a go at this sine-wave speech test play the SWS file then the original speech file and then replay the SWS file and let me know what happens.

Sine Wave Speech

Then I'll explain why I think this is relative to A/B tests and how this helps you understand why A/B tests don't work.



Dean..

I think I know what you're driving at Dean.

The SWS is unintelligible until you hear the original. When you go back to the SWS it is quite clear what is being said.

The point is that if you listen to a piece of music first on kit A then swap to kit B and hear detail you didn't pick up on kit A, but then swap back to kit A to confirm your findings, you may well hear that missing detail upon the second listen to kit A, thus throwing the whole process into confusion.

this is of some interest to me, as i am looking at buying a naim cd player. but why should i if it doesn't out-perform the bluray unit?

i heard a naim cd5i through a supernait on cremoras last summer in new york, and it failed to impress. the cremoras were part of the problem, as they have cabinet resonances at d and a in the treble clef. but i did not find the cd5i to be more revealing on some very familiar recordings. if no improvement is to be had, i can buy a 250.2 instead of a 200 in upgrading my power amp, which is a much loved 26 year old 110 that has never been serviced and still sings.

the extended listening always does the trick for me (i listen to classical music). the 10 second a/b has never worked for me.

Perhaps the problem is listening for detail, etc?

Next time, consider which box makes you want to leave your records or CDs scattered all over the floor and calling in sick to work tomorrow;-)

the bluray does that for me right now.

i have to upgrade on a budget. i think i know what a new power amp would do for me. i think the further up the naim line i move for a power amp, the better off i will be. a 250.2 will do me more good than a 200. but the 250.2 and a cd5i is more than my wallet can swallow.

on the bluray/naim issue i am not so certain.

but here is a fellow all set up to make the test.

please, let's make the test :-)

an extended play on each player, and the listener's observations.

i think it would be instructive.

Why A/B comparisons are wrong...........

What a load of drivel.

CHeers

Don

quote:

The direct immediate improvement isn't noticeable and I've made this mistake before

i recall a Linn advert a long time ago that went along the lines of "...if it sounds better, it is better". make of that what you will...

enjoy
ken