I'm very satisfied with the A/V performance, but a bit less as far as music is concerned. I believe it's due to the quite modest preamp section of the av50.
So I've decided to upgrade this preamp section with either a nac 112 or, better, with the av2 processor.
In this way, my av50 could still be used to power the rears and centre speakers.

My questions are:
1/ Is it advisable to match naim preamps with non-naim power amps ?
2/ Is the association Naim pre / Arcam 9&10 power a good one, or should I look for something else than Naim ?

By the way, don't tell me to swap my Arcam amps, cause I'm not prepared to do so !

Thank you.

What is your regular (music) preamp to which you want to connect the AV50?

John

What I'm looking for is a preamp to match with my alphas 9p (treble) and 10p (bass).
I was thinking Naim, either in the form of the nac 112 or the new av2.
I'd prefer the av2 because it would give me dd and dts sound, which the av50 is unable to do.
If I choose the nac112, the av50 will still be used as my home cinema pre-amp and amp.
If I choose the av2, the av50 will only be used as a power amp for centre and rears.
But my main concern remains two channel stereo. So forget about the av50 ! ;-)

> I repeat my questions:
- is a naim preamp happy with non naim power amps ?
- is a naim preamp a good companion for arcam power amps ?

I once had the (dis)pleasure of owning an Arcam setup for 3 weeks. I foolishly bought 2xDelta 270s (I think) as an "upgrade" in my system. I was most disappointed and ending up returning them to the dealer and swapping them + some cash for a 92/180 (without a hi-cap). The difference was stunning - I spent nearly the whole night playing music once I had the Naim amplification - there was so much more there.

I've not looked back since.

To your questions:

1) Can you use Naim pre with other power - Yes, but the synergy may or may not be there (the two will not have been designed to work together). It is the other way around (non-Naim pre/Naim power) that is a problem.

2) Is the Naim a good companion? IMHO, the Arcams will be the bottleneck in the system, not the Naim pre.

And

quote:

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IMHO, the Arcams will be the bottleneck in the system

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This is probably true for the 9P without question, although the 10P is a pretty decent amplifier in its own right. I would recommend that you either go all one way or all the other.

Arcam amps have a very different sound to Naim ones. Whilst the 250 is unquestionably a better amp than the 10P, I would say that the lower Naim amps are more different than better.

Where your Arcam will let you down is in the bass - everything else is technically pretty good in its class - but the bass lacks the definition that Naim has. You'll find that the levels of detail possible from the amp and the power delivery is pretty similar to a 250 (the A10P has an 800VA oversize transformer and has a fair amount of overhead for transients, like a 250).
The Arcam 10 is better than many on this forum will have you believe - it's a round-earth amp, for sure, but don't be bullied into believing that it can't sound musical - it can.

In fact, I would have sold my 10 amps long ago but for the fact that they kept up with my system's growth until very recently. I found that, to improve substantially on the 10, I'd have to basically look at spending a couple of grand on amps - 250 money, actually. Below this, it's a superb amp for the money.

You have to ask yourself if an incremental upgrade to Naim is going to provide whatever it is that you feel the Arcam is lacking - bearing in mind, of course, that a couple of levels of Mana will firm up the A10's bass and take it to 72/250 off-Mana levels of performance. Arcam gear responds exceptionally well to decent supports, but on something non-ferrous, such as Quadraspire, it just doesn't do it.

[thought: perhaps Arcam gear benefits more from Mana than Naim, as it needs more of a boost in the areas in which Mana excels?]

Lastly, if you do sell the Arcam, you will take a reasonably big hit in terms of trade-in values - I went through this a couple of weeks back, and my dealer only offered £300 for a mint, boxed A10P/3 (three channel modified version of A10) - compared to a list price of £850 for a new one. Of course, this dealer was taking the piss, but don't expect Naim-like residuals. Naim represents a more solid investment, if you ever choose to upgrade or whatever.

Last point I'd make is that you may be just as well keeping the Arcam kit for AV stuff alone - a 10DAVE is a superb AV amplifier with a cracking array of facilities coupled to a very musical sound - I auditioned a great many AV setups and the 10DAVE/10P3 combo was (is?) without a doubt the most musical AV setup available when I bought it at the price (around £2000ish).

You might be advised going that route or perhaps just buying a Naim Nait for solely music use - although to my ears I prefer the A10 for all-round abilities over the Nait 3 which I auditioned at around the same time as the Arcam kit - but then, that was a personal preference thing, and my then-speakers were probably too big for the Nait to feel comfortable with, who knows.

Anyway, I digress. By all means buy Naim, but perhaps you can do as I have and keep the Arcam setup for AV only, and use your new amps for music only - then, you effectively have two systems for not much more than one system.

HTH,

John

"If music reproduction is your main priority why have you got an AV setup? "
>Because I like HC too !

"To be honest I would chop in the power amps for a single 150, 180 or even a 2nd hand 250. "
> I want to keep my arcam amps.

"The Arcam 10 is better than many on this forum will have you believe - it's a round-earth amp, for sure, but don't be bullied into believing that it can't sound musical - it can."
> I know that... And that's why I want to keep them ! ;-)

"Anyway, I digress. By all means buy Naim, but perhaps you can do as I have and keep the Arcam setup for AV only, and use your new amps for music only - then, you effectively have two systems for not much more than one system."
> For several reasons, I don't want to have two separate systems.

After all, I'm quite satisfied with what I have at the moment, and so I just feel the need for a "slight" upgrade in the musical department. As I believe the preamp section is the weak link in the chain, it's a preamp that I'm after. And I'm sure a dedicated one would give better results than trading the av50 for a 10 integrated + dave.
I'd prefer the av2 because it would mean homogeneity on all five channels (nice for dvd-a or sacd !), but I will only consider this option, which also offers the advantage of dd & dts decoding, if the naim processor is at least as musical as a nac 112.
I've also considered the alpha 9c, but if finally I was to go for a stereo preamp, I think I could find better for not much more: Linn Kollector, Musical Fidelity xp100, Myriad mp100 and .. nac 112 !

But as I'm more or less decided on an multichannel model, the real challengers for the naim processor to come are: Myriad mdp500, Cyrus av5 and Roksan Caspian dsp.
Which of the four do you think is best suited to my arcam amps, bearing in mind that my main priorities are fast dynamics in the bass and, of course, overall musicallity ?

Regards.
MR MOJO RISIN'