My trusty old Epos ES22's have finally had new kid on the block arrive - a demo pair of Kudos C20's

I needed a speaker that goes near a rear wall and have a new Naim / Kudos dealer just started up 5 miles from home.

Had them set up tonight but kids in bed so can not demo until tomorrow / weekend.

Anyone any idea what I will find? - I only really need a new speaker cable installation but could not resist trying a new speaker.

Only ever heard Rega ELA, old Linn Helix and long standing Epos ES22's

Having recently got a 52 and had a bang up to date service + more Fraim I was already happy but was interested to see if speakers were better after 14 years of development!

Epos ES22's cost me £1,250 in 1994
Kudos C20's £3,000 in 2008

Will post the results but was interested to know whay everyone thought might be the outcome.

A C20 has a pretty decent tweeter apparently?

CDI (AKA CDS2)

The Kudos wins hands down thanks to the Creschendo tweeter and Dereks signature bass line.

regards PB

quote:

Originally posted by Polarbear:
...signature bass line.

CDI,
The Crescendo tweeter is absolutely liquid. Delicious. In the end I preferred the C10 in my set up, and if you find the C20 is not quite right for you, don't ignore the C10 as an option.

James

James,

Can the C10's work close to a rear wall? -dealer thought not so not an option for me

CDI

GURU GURU GURU GURU GURU GURU GURU GURU GURU GURU

What?

quote:

Originally posted by JamieWednesday:
GURU GURU GURU GURU GURU GURU GURU GURU GURU GURU

CDI - I think Jamie means you may want to look at the Guru loudspeaker,

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Adam Meredith,

The Crescendo tweeter is liquid as James said, but I found mine took a little time to settle in. they sounded great from the start, but on recordings with a lot of heavily mic'd drum kit, for instance, the tweeter could get a little forward. Time resolved this though. I have mine 12" from a rear wall, toed in moderately. I really love them.
daniel

quote:

Originally posted by CDI:
James,

Can the C10's work close to a rear wall? -dealer thought not so not an option for me

CDI

If he thought the C10s wouldn't work close to a wall, I'm surprised he recommended to the C20s, which have a more emphatic bass from a similarly ported design.

Like Daniel, I too have them about a foot off the back wall, with no problem, I haven't tried them closer. But hey, that's the point of being lent a pair for home. Experimenting and seeing how you get on.

Regarding run-in. I'd say, sound great from the box, but sublime after 4-6 weeks.

I use the substantial Partington Dreadnought Broadside tuned with sand filling (central column full, corner pillars 3/4 full). I have tried them with less and more sand, which made them leaner and fuller respectively.

Kudos' own single column stand, which is therefore a bit less beefy design than the Partington, and/or sand, would - I would have thought - tune (de-emphasise) the bass a bit, making it more likely to work nearer a back wall.

Such flexibility and tunability of this standmounter is one reason I chose C10s over the floorstanding C20s. I anticipate potentially moving around with my work and finally retirement (in 25 years' time, God willing ) and so wanted something that would likely work wherever we might be.

Most importantly, enjoy the trial!

James

If you like the Crescendo tweeter and need something that will work close to the wall and £4k is in your budget then try the Art Emotion Monitors.

Downward firing ports through intregral stands along with truly epic levels build quality, honestly they are joy to listen to, brilliant.

A stand mount that sounds like a full range speaker and is easy to place in your room what more could one want. Oh and they are upgradable for the future!!

I demoed the C10's and agree that they are great, but no match for the Arts, but then they shouldnt be given the price difference.

Cheers

Jez

Thanks for all the advice and help.

Polar Bear is absolutely spot on.

I have amazing bass lines and an fantastic trebble. The old Epos ES22's still sound great but a bit dull and they always need moving out from the wall for a listening session - totally a nuisance really

More importantly, I have finally got my wife of 15 years to be blindfolded and have an A B comparison - she has absolutely no interest in my system apart from appearance (that means Guru and Art stuff is out of the question unless I divorce)

Back to the music now so will post more detailed findings later - I think I need to find £3K though

quote:

Originally posted by CDI:
Thanks for all the advice and help.

Polar Bear is absolutely spot on.

I have amazing bass lines and an fantastic trebble. The old Epos ES22's still sound great but a bit dull and they always need moving out from the wall for a listening session - totally a nuisance really

More importantly, I have finally got my wife of 15 years to be blindfolded and have an A B comparison - she has absolutely no interest in my system apart from appearance (that means Guru and Art stuff is out of the question unless I divorce)

Back to the music now so will post more detailed findings later - I think I need to find £3K though

Forgot to mention she preferred the C20's by miles - she has much better hearing than me being a teacher (P/T) !!!

CDI

I'm not surprised the A to B blindfold test for your wife was in favour of the C20's, they are a superb speaker. Polarbear got it spot on when pointing out that fabulous treble and solid bass as main points of interest. They also have a somewhat uncanny habit of making you feel like you are "in" the performance rather than just a bystander.
I'm quite sure you local dealer will sort you out if you wish to try C10's as an alternative as suggested by James, from your comment above though I suspect this is not necessary!
All you have to do now is enjoy some more listening and you will find you won't want to go back to the Epos again. Time to find £3k I think..... Mind you I already have been there, bought and enjoyed the C20's before that Derek chap went and brought out the C30 - oops, had to have that one straight away.

Enjoy the music.

Dave

Dave,

Should I try the C30 as well? is my old (serviced) Olive stuff up to it?

Bearing in mind I last bought speakers 14 years ago what's another £2k!!

I have enjoyed the bass of the C20's and feel anything lighter in my lounge would not be enough

CDI

CDI

If your budget is up to it you need to discuss with your dealer. Let's just say it's a lot bigger jump that you may think for £2.25k. Only thing you may need to look at is placement as they dig very, very deep with a real driving bass line which can find faults in you room (resonance points) very easily. Fortunately if you are dealing with Simon he knows this, as well as how to get round it usually as well.
As regards driving them your serviced 250 will have no problem as they are an easy load, I have heard them running off a CD5i and Nait 5i and the system was remarkable. Your Olive gear will have no problems, if you can afford them and are looking for a long term investment take your good lady to see a pair and have a listen, you owe yourself!

Cheers

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by CDI:
More importantly, I have finally got my wife of 15 years to be blindfolded

Blimey, you really do play the long game, CDI!!

quote:

Should I try the C30 as well? is my old (serviced) Olive stuff up to it?

I heard a pair of C30s at Tom Tom Audio the other day and I have to say they sounded absolutely fantastic, much better than they did in James' room at the Heathrow show.

Loads of really deep bass, but utterly taut and controlled and a very driving, dynamic sound.

Mark

CDI, I'm delighted that you seem to have cracked it with the C20s. Boy, has your system come on a country mile in the last year or so!!

Continue enjoying, and Mrs CDI, blindfold or not

James

quote:

Originally posted by DTW2020:
CDI

I'm not surprised the A to B blindfold test for your wife was in favour of the C20's, they are a superb speaker. Polarbear got it spot on when pointing out that fabulous treble and solid bass as main points of interest. They also have a somewhat uncanny habit of making you feel like you are "in" the performance rather than just a bystander.
I'm quite sure you local dealer will sort you out if you wish to try C10's as an alternative as suggested by James, from your comment above though I suspect this is not necessary!
All you have to do now is enjoy some more listening and you will find you won't want to go back to the Epos again. Time to find £3k I think..... Mind you I already have been there, bought and enjoyed the C20's before that Derek chap went and brought out the C30 - oops, had to have that one straight away.

Enjoy the music.

Dave

Dave,

That Derek chap popped into my demo today and not only made me a cup of tea and showed me round his workshop adjacent to the Hifi sound Stockton showroom, the C30 was also brought out!!!

However, I decided on the C20 as my budget was realy not much more than £2K.

Derek is starting to build my new C20's next week - I may even call in and watch being only 6 miles away

Amazing to think my tea was made by my Kudos speaker maker - bliss

CDI

quote:

Originally posted by CDI:

quote:

Originally posted by DTW2020:
CDI

I'm not surprised the A to B blindfold test for your wife was in favour of the C20's, they are a superb speaker. Polarbear got it spot on when pointing out that fabulous treble and solid bass as main points of interest. They also have a somewhat uncanny habit of making you feel like you are "in" the performance rather than just a bystander.
I'm quite sure you local dealer will sort you out if you wish to try C10's as an alternative as suggested by James, from your comment above though I suspect this is not necessary!
All you have to do now is enjoy some more listening and you will find you won't want to go back to the Epos again. Time to find £3k I think..... Mind you I already have been there, bought and enjoyed the C20's before that Derek chap went and brought out the C30 - oops, had to have that one straight away.

Enjoy the music.

Dave

Dave,

That Derek chap popped into my demo today and not only made me a cup of tea and showed me round his workshop adjacent to the Hifi sound Stockton showroom, the C30 was also brought out!!!

However, I decided on the C20 as my budget was realy not much more than £2K.

Derek is starting to build my new C20's next week - I may even call in and watch being only 6 miles away

Amazing to think my tea was made by my Kudos speaker maker - bliss

CDI

If you get a chance to talk to Derek, ask if my ebony C30's have been built and are on their way to Canada? Waiting for them