hi,

want to know if anybody out there have tried valve /tube amplifiers with naim cdps?

getting a bit tired of the very foreward naim sound and have been thinking of trying some valve amps, but without loosing too much prat.

have been trying cary sli 80, but it was rather slow. been thinking of audio research, mcintosh or balanced audio technology (bat). ear, too.

any suggestions?

Try the Unison Research S6. Works well with Naim CD players and is also not difficult to pair with speakers.

quote:

trying some valve amps, but without loosing too much prat...
/any suggestions?

AudioNote is the best I've ever heard so far.

I used Manley Neo-Classic 300B PP/SE (mono tube amps) with all Naim equipment. It worked great and had a lot of PRAT. I even tried them with a pair of Credo speakers.

Zep,

I used to have a CDX and for a long time I loved the zippy sound. When I wanted to upgrade I listened to the CDX2 and found that like you I had grown a little tired of the forward sound quality.

I have no idea how a valve amp would sound with a CDX2 but I would like to suggest considering a change in CD players. The CDX and CDX2 are the most forward and driving CD players that Naim makes and I don't think any good amp is really going to mask that.

The need for a change came to me when I was listening to some Bill Evans jazz. The CDX was giving very unnatural attack to the piano notes and the overall sound was intense when it should have been flowing. The CDX2 had a similar effect. I now use a different CDP and the music is working out much better.

JN

quote:

Originally posted by Dave996:
Try the Unison Research S6. Works well with Naim CD players and is also not difficult to pair with speakers.

Even better, try the Unnison Simfonia.

I listen to one with the ART Impression loudspeakers and they were very impresive,

Regards

PB

Try EAR-Yoshino 834T, the 100W hybrid integrated amp. Works very well with DVD5, CDX2/XPS and CSD3/555PS (to ProAc D80 and Response4)

quote:

Originally posted by John N.:


I have no idea how a valve amp would sound with a CDX2 but I would like to suggest considering a change in CD players. The CDX and CDX2 are the most forward and driving CD players that Naim makes and I don't think any good amp is really going to mask that.

JN,

do you think i should buy CDS3 instead?

zep.

I am not certain what you mean by *forward Naim sound*.

As a solid state amplifeir comes in different voicing, so does a valve amp.

You are likely to get a zillion valve amp reco. that might not fit your needs. ( and speakers, too )

Unless you are more specific to what it is that you are not happy with, changing an amplifier is not likely to solve the problem.

Which speakers are you running?

Remember, there are as many shitty valve amps as shitty solid state amplifiers.

dear kuma,

i live in finland and it's not easy to go and listen to valve amps (long distances).

my system: cdx2-xps2-202-hicap2-200-proac response d15-napsc.

what i mean with "foreward sound"?
well, the first half hour; the sound is very good and exciting, but after that; ear fatiquing, i will call it. i need to have a break!

maybe i should try other speakers???

i know there are many poor amps out there (both valves and ss).

that's why i ask you for an opinion.

btw: in my country it's not easy being an audio freak.

You even try something more simple like a change of interconnect.

Robert Schofield audio, has some interesting reports from NAIM users.

They are reasonably priced and have 30 day return facility. Part of my system is currently in dock at the moment. Once I am up and running with my own kit I well give these a try myself.
Also use CDX2 but without XPS2.

Another possibilty if don't already use one is to try a hi-line and see what that does. Hearing one demmed although not dramatically changing the overall NAIM presentation does round off some of the edge.

Kind Regards

T.C

T.C,

yeah, i think i'll try the hiline, but i don't think my dealer has got one yet.

Hold on a moment.

Throwing money at it does not solve this.

I've run the CDX2/XPS2 and they might not be as natural sounding as a CDS3, I've never experience a listening fatigue with a Naim amp.

It is true, from my experience, that a Naim system does have a tendency to lead to a listening fatigue. ( some old Olive gear at high SPL for instance ).

But your kit isn't one of them.
Are you sure your set up is optimised?

I am not familiar with the D15, so, I am not certain if a 200 is adequate to power them.

I love the 200. The only time I have heard the distortion ( a cause for a listening fatigue ) was when I turn up the volume too loud.

I'd check your set up and your mains before you start changing a gear.

Cables are often used for a tone control and it is easy enough thing to do but it does not fix the fundamental problem.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

But your kit isn't one of them.
Are you sure your set up is optimised?

I am not familiar with the D15, so, I am not certain if a 200 is adequate to power them.

I love the 200. The only time I have heard the distortion ( a cause for a listening fatigue ) was when I turn up the volume too loud.

Kuma, the proacs are an easy load, i've heard them with many amps and they usually sound a bit polite and laid back.

well, i usually like to play quite loud (volume at 9-10 o'clock), maybe that's the (mine) problem!

i've got a dedicated spur for my hi-fi.

CDS2 with Joule Electra VZN 100 Output Transformerless Tube Amp. With a Joule Electra LA-150 preamp. Merlin Speakers. Sounds great at my house. PRaT no problem at all. Huge soundstage, front to back and side to side, great height of the image, bass and resolution. Realistic sound and it plays music as well as anything I have heard, too. Takes a bit of an enthusiast to move up to tubes at this level, but it is worth it.

zep.

How large is your room?

10 o'clock on a 200 wasn't a good thing with my then speakers ( largish standmounts 87db. 4 ohm speakers ).

IIRC, I had to park the volume around 9 o'clock for the maximum volume for 200 to avoid the distortion. My speakers weren't that difficult to drive either.

In fact, 10 o'clock is pretty loud on any Naim amps I had here and can cause distortion in treble area. ( with a Naim CD player )

It's good that you've got a dedicated main, but did your dealer installed a kit properly?

I would try to maximise your current set up rather than leaping from a 200 to an unknown valve amp.

They clip soft normally, but most good valve amps will cost more than a 200 and entry level valve amps, whilst, might address your issue, but for sure, you'll be giving up something else for it.

p.s. The reason I liked the 200 was because it reminded me of my valve amp. I could not keep it since it ran out of steam fairly quickly.

quote:

do you think i should buy CDS3 instead

zep - when i demoed naim cdplayers i found the CD5 to be way "nicer" than the CDX2. do a search on CD5 here on the forum. a CDS3 is also "nicer" than the CDX or CDX2.

regards and good luck, christian

Interesting, is the consensus that the 200 power amp starts to run out of steam when the Vol is at 10 )'Clock? If so, that might explain why my little Olive NAP90 is having problems when I turn up the volume.

Sounds strange, but after playing a record or two, it seems to go quieter (or perhaps my ears get less sensitive . Anybody else noticed this?

What CD player are you using now John?
Have you found a less forward sound without loss of PRAT?

Regards

T.C

quote:

Originally posted by John N.:
Zep,

I used to have a CDX and for a long time I loved the zippy sound. When I wanted to upgrade I listened to the CDX2 and found that like you I had grown a little tired of the forward sound quality.

I have no idea how a valve amp would sound with a CDX2 but I would like to suggest considering a change in CD players. The CDX and CDX2 are the most forward and driving CD players that Naim makes and I don't think any good amp is really going to mask that.

The need for a change came to me when I was listening to some Bill Evans jazz. The CDX was giving very unnatural attack to the piano notes and the overall sound was intense when it should have been flowing. The CDX2 had a similar effect. I now use a different CDP and the music is working out much better.

JN

quote:

Originally posted by zep:

quote:

Originally posted by John N.:


I have no idea how a valve amp would sound with a CDX2 but I would like to suggest considering a change in CD players. The CDX and CDX2 are the most forward and driving CD players that Naim makes and I don't think any good amp is really going to mask that.

JN,

do you think i should buy CDS3 instead?

Zep

The CDS3 is a very natural sounding player and I do think it would solve your problem. The Naim CD5 is another option. The voicing of the CD5 is similar to the CDS3. I know that a number of people on the forum feel that the CD5 performs way above it's price. It's probably the least fatigueing CDP Naim has made below the CDS3.
JN