Regards, Bas

nah, too old...

Now, if you can just tell me who's selling it so I can buy it instead!!

(Did I fool ya? OK, I thought not.)

cheers, Martin

For 235 UKP you almost can't afford not to get it provided it is working. Allow funds for a Naim service and you will have the second best stereo amp available.

Cheers,

Bob

Per

Cheers,

John Schmidt
"95% of everything is crud" - Theodore Sturgeo

[This message was edited by John Schmidt on SUNDAY 29 October 2000 at 02:05.]

IIRC VUK bought a s/h 52 because one come up at a price he couldn't refuse.

This sounds like another prime example.

I see the 'mullet' as allocating budget inappropriately - the sale of the newer NAP90-3 should make this pretty much a free upgrade.

I second the advice to budget for a service unless it's been done within the last 6-10 years. This will be a further huge 'upgrade' - in the future if funds don't permit at the moment. An e-mail to Naim will suggest a ballpark price.

I seem to remember that an original 250 held itself up pretty well when Paul Messenger compared it to a new one.

cheers, Martin

quote:

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I can get a very early NAP250 for UKP 235. Should I buy this, if working correct, or is this too old? And what does this look like?

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I presume that this is a "bolt-together" 250 dating prior to 1979-80...unless you've got quick access to a VERY sophisticated Naim service facility, I'd probably recommend against it.

Many of these older units have never been serviced within the last fifteen years, during which time many procedures for extending their usable life (and performance) have been established--some of which require a substantial amount of labor to accomplish, thus making its purchase not such a bargain.

As always, you get what you pay for.

Dave Dever, Service Manager, NANA

We've talked about this off line too and I though what the heck, I put it on the forum. I'll probably be taken for a (deaf) fool or be ignored totally but I think a 180 actually sounds better than a (new) 250...

I have auditioned both these amps extensively at home with different Naim pre-amps and a CDX with both Hi- & SuperCap around to try too. This testing was done on my Sonus Faber Electa Amator II speakers.

The 250 definitely has more power on tap, no question. It has more authority and weight over the 180. Soundstaging, timbre and tonal accuracy is more a matter of 'different' than 'better'. The soundstage of the 250 is a little wider & deeper but lacks the pinpoint positioning of the 180. The biggest difference for me is that the 180 sounds 'quicker on it's feet' over the 250 which can be a little sluggish and lumpy next to its smaller brother. At the end I prefer the 180's superior pace & rhythm resulting in a more musical and engaging performance...

As always, with other speakers it could be totally different ballgame but I though I put something against the 'bigger is better' rule that seems to be unquestioned by a lot of people.

Richard.

quote:

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but I think a 180 actually sounds better than a (new) 250...

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I hope you are aware you're now in danger of a getting a notorious reverse upgrade snappy. What the heck, I will also give my opinion.

I've heard the 180 vs 250 in two systems. In one, the 250 smoked the 180 due to its extra power needed. In the other, mine with P.E. Leon speakers, the 250 had more control and base, but it sounded greyer, the drum-machine effect was enehanced, and voices and saxophones were much subdued wrt the 180 who was more engaging.

It's all a matter of system and room synergies.

There, I said it (yet once more).

Omer.

In the couple of weeks that I'm on this (good) forum I quickly found out that my experiences and ears are quite different from the vast majority of the contributors. For me that's the best part of it. When all 700 members would have the same opinions it would get very boring...

Richard.

"the torodial in the 250 has more voltage to feed the voltage regulators, so it must have less current, as the wattage ratings of the transformers for both the 160 and the 250 are equal. So the 160 has much more current available."

Well, there must be something, that the flat earth Naim Retro Junkies are looking for single supply 110 and 160 power amps.

regards,
Hartmut from Munich

An old 250 may not be quite as good as a new one, but for 235 quid it’s a stunning amplifier, and one hell of a lot less than a 180 second hand.

For the record, I personally prefer any well maintained 250 to any Naim amp below it - the regulated power supply gives a level of refinement that the smaller amps can't quite match. To my ears the 180 may well be brighter, but the 250 is better. Significantly. You are getting a 250 at a 160 price, assuming it is not trashed / modified etc it is a true bargain, and you have a nice upgrade to come when you re-cap it later on.

Tony.

However, the 72/102 is exempt because, by reputation at least, the 102 is harsher than the 72, and thus flatter earth.

Per

I had my 1984 NAP 160 serviced just a few months ago for £110.

The NAP 160 is one of those fantastic Naim bargains. I compared it with a NAP 180 at time of purchase. The difference in cost was affordable so I could have bought the NAP180. I chose the 160 because, for me, it was much better than the 180. For £160 + service cost I would buy it.

I also agree with others on this thread that 'more expensive' doesn't always mean 'better'. It can just as often mean 'different'.

Brian

Then 4 weeks later, presumably after the caps had broken in, there is absolutely nothing sluggish about the 250. Transient attacks border on being scary and the micro-nuances can be discerned more intelligibly than with the 180. Now I can't wait for my 135s.

James

The serial number is 10xx. So I presume the NAP 250 is from 1982? I think this is a good sign, or isn't it?

Regards, Bas V

quote:

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The serial number is 10xx. So I presume the NAP 250 is from 1982? I think this is a good sign, or isn't it?

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If it is from 1982 it will have the extruded case, i.e. not the blot on top. This is a good vintage, the only major thing that has been changed since is that the transformer was up rated in 1984 when the 135 came out. Assuming this amp is in good nick, I would jump at it.

Phone Naim, they can tell you whether it has ever been in for servicing etc.

Tony.

quote:

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The serial number is 10xx. So I presume the NAP 250 is from 1982?

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Sorry Bas, but when I was testing 250's back at Naim in '82 the serial no.s were in the 7000 range. 10xx would be mid to late '70's and definitely a "bolt together" version, which is quite a different animal from the "extruded case" 250. First generation 250's usually need more (sometimes much more) than a re-cap to be considered healthy. Without an informed (i.e. done
by Naim) check-up, the value of this piece is anyones guess.

regards

Chris.

I guess you have to be on this forum for a while and know the 'inside slang' to understand your message. I don't.

Richard.