I don't post often on the forum but this is a fascinating thread, so felt I had to say something.

It would be interesting to know how many posters are active musicians themselves (ie people who play music as well as listening to it). My parents surrounded me with all kinds of music when I was young (classical, popular, jazz) and I often used to fall asleep to Dad playing the piano downstairs when I was very young, so I guess I had a very good start in the "listening" department.

I've played the piano since age of 8 and listened to all the normal stuff (rock, pop, punk, disco) plus classical during my teenage years; ran a mobile disco for several years, carefully selecting tracks and genres to make a good evening's entertainment. However, you can't beat playing in a band to experience what music is really all about - the interaction between musicians, and the shared experience of making something happen. Good recorded music can approximate this experience, of course, and Naim equipment is very good at this aspect.

Having played in many bands (rock, soul, jazz etc), listened to a lot of stuff, and mixed with a lot of musicians, I have come to the following conclusions:

1) Some people just listen to lyrics and judge a song purely on that

2) Other people prefer the rhythm, melody, harmony and chords to lyrics (that's me, a jazz buff)

3) Music is either good or bad, in the sense of the musicianship involved rather than the genre

4) Live music is really the only thing worth listening to, and, to an extent, the smaller the venue the better. I have almost given up listening to recorded music (except to learn from it), preferring to listen to live music, or actually play it myself, either solo, or preferably with a band of fellow musicians - this is what it is really all about, in my opinion

It sometimes worries me that people who love music so much never consider the option of actually learning to play themselves. Even just trying could be enormously enlightening, and shed some light on the process of making music and all it entails.

Even so, I just don't get U2, Bruce Springsteen and similar, even though there are fine musicians involved. Songs are too formulaic for me, I guess.

Dear Paul,

Here is a thread in the Padded cell, which may go some way to answering your question about "actually playing."

http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/58019385/m/4872967417

On this showing either people don't care to admit to playing, which I know is the case for some here, as I know that they play or that they have played, but mostly I suspect the majority prefer to listen, and don't play or sing. I have played and could still, so I have found. I did so only a couple of months ago, when I discovered I still could manage it, even though I was in technical trouble when I really gave up with left hand problems that - no longer aggrevated by playing - have got better.

I would still rather listen than play after the experience gained though! But the insight that playing gives lasts forever!

I agree that live concert can yield the best results, but I still find more pleasure in a really great artist's reading on records than a mediocre one at a concert. Recordings often present music making that is completely worth listening to in between concerts of course, but these are expenisve to go to ...

George

quote:

t would be interesting to know how many posters are active musicians themselves

I'm not an active musician. I sometimes strum a guitar, but find Status Quo a bit on the difficult side so I know my limitations - I used to write songs, but they were dreadful so I stopped.

My feeling is that if a song has lyrics then I'd like the artist to take the trouble to write some decent ones. I'm not too keen on the lyrics being profound and I dislike lyrics that are meant to shock, but I like nice story lines

Three wheels on my wagon,
And I’m still rolling along
The Cherokees are chasing me
Arrows fly, right on by
But I’m singing a happy song

I’m singing a higgity, haggity, hoggety, high
Pioneers, they never say die
A mile up the road there’s a hidden cave
And we can watch those Cherokees
Go galloping by

paints a picture and is not from the my baby loves me school. Dreary lyrics that I detest are things like

For nine months I carried you
Growin' inside me - NO CHARGE
For the nights I've sat up with you,
Doctored you, prayed for you - NO CHARGE
For the time and the tears.
And the cost through the years, there's NO CHARGE
When you add it all up.
The full cost of my love is NO CHARGE

Not only dreary, but as Gilbert and Sullivan would have said Nothing Rhymed.

The musical setting for the lyrics is equally important - they must go together. I do like musicians who can play a bit. Sometimes pretty ordinary lyrics sound fine when the music is right.

Live performances are less important to me than a good recording as I always feel that what is on record should be definitive. The other problem is that rock bands are usually too loud for me.

The finest live group I've ever seen were Planxty - though John Fogerty takes some beating. HMHB were, of course, really good as you'd expect. I have seen groups that I like on record, but were horrible live. I've recently watched some BBC4 live sessions with the Eagles, Neil Young and James Taylor, but didn't enjoy what I heard - I've not liked records I've heard by them and watching them live, albeit, on TV didn't alter that. Melanie Safka who I like a lot sounded fine on a live TV session, but so much better in the studio where the real magic of the precise orchestration seems to bring her songs alive. I realise watching TV sessions is not like being there.

I know this is not the common view. I wonder if it explains my taste in music and why there is a lot of music I know everybody seems to like except me.

ATB Rotf

Now I'm also like you ROTF I feel a bad lyric spoils good music but unlike you I don't focus on the lyrics as much they are more an extra instrument. If I listen to say Joy Division its Ian Curtis' drone and deep tone that is enjoyable and integrable to the music. I feel this is because I mainly listen to instrumental music with maybe a smattering of "vocals". I find I do not like music that is wholly focused on the lyrics and story there within and has music as purely an accompaniment (strumming on a guitar ) I'd rather read a book.



Dean..

quote:

If I listen to say Joy Division its Ian Curtis' drone and deep tone that is enjoyable and integrable to the music.

Hi Dean

Although I prefer Joy Division with Ian Curtis to New Order, I still find their music quite dark and urban. It makes me think of grimy back streets and the less pleasant side of the city. A bit more Velvet Underground than Grateful Dead - hmm I really used to like the Velvet Underground in the 60s, but as they became more well known I began to play their music less and less - I still like Loaded, but ...

Contrast with The Clash, contemporaries of JD, and you'll see where I'm at. The Clash's music is uplifting, more inclusive and makes me want to play air guitar. I think it creates more amenable images to me than JD. Probably what both parties intended - so it is good way of saying both have merit and integrity, but Mr Strummer's lot are more enjoyable for me.

To redress the balance I do prefer JD to the Lurkers or Ramones.

Of course, I have to question my own logic, as Scott Walker often conjures up bleak images and to me the man can do no wrong. Even in the 60s he sung The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore.

Next CD to spin is Planxty featuring Christy Moore

ATB Rotf

Have you heard much by the late Delia Derbyshire? I think you'd like her music.

Spinning - Super Black Market Clash at the mo.



Dean..

Dean

quote:

Yes I am looking for a pattern but not many people have put forward why they feel they got into certain music in the first place and why they might be trying out new stuff in their 40's that they would have never listened to in the teens

For me the answer is pretty straightforward. I have been in the US for 11 years now and have been exposed to whole load of stuff that I would never have considered listening to in the UK - mostly Alt Country or Americana depending on your categorization of it.

As a kid I grew up loving the early Who stuff, some Deep Purple, Pink Floyd and - amazingly enough - the early Neil Diamond stuff before he let the record labels turn him into A.N. Other performer. Nothing if not varied!

As I look through my LP collection I see a wide range of stuff, some of which I like and some of which I scratch my heads as to why the hell I bought it (to be cool?).

Anyway, back on point, having discovered the likes of Hayes Carll, Slaid Cleaves, Ryan Bingham (buy Mescalito!!), John Prine, Townes Van Zandt, Po' Girl, Lucinda Williams, The Flatlanders and The Hacienda Brothers along with stuff like Son Volt and Uncle Tupelo I now find that my record buying habit has gone through the roof (it helps that they are cheaper here...sorry to rub it in).

So for me, it is purely situational. Having been absorbed (to a degree) culturally, stuff that would have been interesting only in the abstract before is now "real" to me and the lyrics from Hayes, Ryan and the others all make sense (I've met both of them so I can use their first names with some impunity ).

Not everyone's cup of team but there is my reason for changing musical tastes!

Cheers

Jim