I had to ask a question based on Gregorian chanting, which I quite like and also find myself hypocritical in doing so.

It is uplifting and yet peaceful, but I am curious of one thing:

Are the echoes present because it is recorded in a large cathedral, or is it just men/monks singing in a recording studio and echoes added on ultra high quality synthesisers?

Im curious as to your comments!!

Jon

quote:

Originally posted by Consciousmess:
I had to ask a question based on Gregorian chanting,

Are the echoes present because it is recorded in a large cathedral, or is it just men/monks singing in a recording studio and echoes added on ultra high quality synthesisers?

Jon

the recordings i have of chant are made in large churches, and i do not believe i have heard a recording of this music that was electronically enhanced.

however, given chants recent popularity, anything is possible.

tonight i'll browse the stacks and send you a recommended recording or two, if you like.

If you haven't yet seen it, you might find my post on the Christmas Music thread to be a starting point.

Without doubt, the best recordings of chant are by religious communities (monastic choirs), rather than 'commercial' choirs, as it is their daily pattern - the lifting up of mind heart and voice in prayer and praise to God (which I appreciate is the difficult bit for you ) rather than simply singing dots on paper.

A 'commercial' choir is put together by audition, and generally contains singers trained in 'modern' techniques, such as vibrato etc. Whereas, a monastic choir simply comprises the members of the religious community, whatever their background, some with prior musical training, others not, who learn to sing as a community because the chant is the vocal expression of their life together in community.

It is a much purer, less theatrical style of singing. For want of a better illustration, a bit like the difference between Emma Kirkby and Monserrat Caballe!

Which you go for depends on you! I have got one or two 'commercial' choir recordings, such as the Tallis Scholars' 'Missa in Gallicantu' (Christmas Midnight Mass in the Sarum tradition), but for the most part I like recordings of specific liturgical celebrations, and specific religious communities, rather than the more general 'Gregorian moods' type of thing (though I do collect those too, to hear the signature sound of a religious community I don't yet know).

Recordings involving monastic choirs are made 'on site' for a number of reasons. Firstly, because as religious they are committed to place, so don't leave it! Secondly, the particular 'acoustic of place' is part of the signature sound of each community. Thirdly - more generally - the architecture (usually Gothic) provides the natural acoustic for this type of music (or perhaps it's this type of music that arises naturally from this particular acoustic...?).

'Commercial' choirs tend to go to a range of places, with sympathetic acoustic, to record. Such venues as the church of SS. Peter & Paul, Salle, Norfolk (eg Tallis Scholars) and Merton College Chapel, Oxford, amongst others.

These are, first and foremost, commercial recordings of music, so the wizardry comes into play rather more (such as digitally removing individual notes from one take and replacing them with better examples from another take).

Whereas, whilst a religious community makes a recording in the hope that it will generate some revenue to help keep the place going (of course), it is not simply a commercial exercise. The recordings of religious communities are about recording that community doing its thing!

Most recordings involving religious communities are by Benedictines. Though other orders use chant, but in a slightly different way (eg Premonstratensian or Norbertine chant, which is hard to find recorded).

It was the Benedictines of the Abbey of Solesmes (pronounced 'Solem') who in the C19th rescued chant from near extinction following the near-eradication of monasticism by Reformations and Revolutions. Over the years, the monks of Solesmes collected together manuscripts or fragments thereof, edited and published them, and above all sang using them.

There are Solesmes recordings going back to the '30s. Those from the '50s are fine. The modern recordings are simply stunning.

Good wishes,
James

quote:

Originally posted by JWM:
Recordings involving monastic choirs are made 'on site' for a number of reasons. Firstly, because as religious they are committed to place, so don't leave it! Secondly, the particular 'acoustic of place' is part of the signature sound of each community. Thirdly - more generally - the architecture (usually Gothic) provides the natural acoustic for this type of music (or perhaps it's this type of music that arises naturally from this particular acoustic...?).
James

the idea that architecture is fundamental to the religious music of the middle ages was a fundamental argument raised by Hindemith in the 20th century.

a feather on the breath of god is a great recording made by tony faulkner some 20 years ago

my mate phil hobbs, who runs linn records, has done some stunning recordings of the tallis scholars over the years -- they should be on linn records label or on gimel (I think?)

quote:

Originally posted by Consciousmess:
...Im curious as to your comments!!

Any thoughts following our comments?

Definitely, thank you James!

I have to say I appreciate your detailed post regarding this and must say that I would like to get hold of some of these communities' recordings, as that is what I would prefer.

As you quite correctly pointed out, I ignore/disregard the true reason for this sort of chanting. However, as the motives for expressing such a community are there from deep heart-felt feelings, I regard the emerged result just as worthwhile to listen to as any other music.

That's the problem, isn't it? Anything which takes the human experience and raises it 'out of this world' consequently has religious connotations!!

Regards,

Jon

PS And if I've not said it before, I believe in the 'human spirit', meaning, helping others collaboratively and stoically. That is present, I am sure.

quote:

Originally posted by JWM:
... a monastic choir simply comprises the members of the religious community, whatever their background, some with prior musical training, others not, who learn to sing as a community because the chant is the vocal expression of their life together in community...

Example - St John's Seminary, Wonersh, Surrey (students for the priesthood rather than a monastic choir, but the point is the same) - Advent Vespers (Evening Prayer) Gregorian Magnificat with its Antiphon.

Just ordered this James, a long way from Rory?



SJB

That's great SJB! This is the recording I mentioned in my post on the Christmas Music thread:

"There is also a simply magificent recording of the 3rd Mass of Christmas (ie Christmas Day) by St Martin, Beuron, directed by Fr Maurus Pfaff (or more correctly for a Benedictine, Dom Maurus Pfaff). I have the LP, but I think it is available on CD. From the mid-1950s, superb crisp recording. Really interesting to hear the German 'hard' pronunciation of the Latin, rather than the 'soft' pronunciation by those from Romance language countries. eg 'qui' - 'kvi' rather than 'kwi'."

Long way from Rory? Well, with both you'll find total commitment, and you'll propably also be pleasantly surprised by some of the long solo vocal runs (known as 'melisma'), the mediaeval forerunner of the well-constructed guitar solo!

Good wishes,
James