This weekend I managed to get hold of the legendary recording taken from a performance in Klemperer's 1961 Royal Opera House, Covent Garden production of Beethoven's Fidelio.

This is not so easily described in a post of reasonable length, but I shall try to distil it a bit. It does not live up to the expectation some might have as slow, or dull traversal!

It is generally on the quick side, sometimes faster than one might have thought possible. Tempi are cast in logical though not always traditional relationships. But it seems the soloist singers found themselves so well accompanied that the each play their part with success, amid a firm and structured framework which only heightens the emotional grip of the work.

George

This has been a very difficult recording to describe, because it is one where you listen and wonder how it could musically go any differently!

The cast of singer are simply superb, and no one is going to say that everyone is fine except for X who was clearly having a poor day. They work together and are supported wonderfully from the orchestra.

I had the LPs of Klemperer's EMI studio recording, and I found that hard work. It was more than worthy, but as can happen with studio recordings made over extended periods, there no inevitability to the flow, and a sort of worthy ruggedness replaced to brilliance and fire in the unedited live recording.

My next set of Fidelio was led by Furtwängler, live at Salzburg, with a Stella international cast and the VPO with the State Opera Chorus, in a Radio taping. This had the same conviction of a wonderful live event captured on the wind, but Klemperer has a few advantages. Firstly the BBC recording from 1961 is very much finer than the Austrian Red-White-Red Radio recording, and Klemperer has a much firmer grip on the rhythm and articulation of the piece.

The structural strength of Klemperer's reading produces some unexpected tempi [and tempi relationships], which only seem unusual once one gets to the end! As I said, during the performance there is an inevitable rightness to it.

In the old style, now criticised, the Finale Scene is preceded by a powerful and propulsive performance of the Third Leonora Overture [as it was in the Furtwängler set] but for once the Finale does not come out as a sort Post Script, but rather a telling of the "Happy Ending!" I have never encountered that before. Indeed, I think it may be a weakness of the Opera, that the Finale does indeed seem hardly necessary after Leonora has found her man again. Somehow, Klemperer keeps that seem of joy going right to the end.

So this is a performance that may be seen as extra-ordinary, and presented in at least respectable sonics [mono of course for the BBC in 1961] but certainly one to run beside any of the estimable studio recordings as an appendix!

For me it goes straight to the top of the list, and tempts me to once again get the Klemperer studio performance. I may see more sense in it now, regarding that as the appendix!

George.

PS: Next up will be more symphony recordings of concerts, and the live recordings with Arraw of three piano concertos. That will be a fascinating collaboration

Just ordered from the Testamant eshop: Beethoven Symphonies One and Eight in live recordings from the RFH in 1957, coupled with a much later concert recording of the Great Fugue, which should arrive on Tuesday or Wedenesday! Oh the anticipation! And these much less herioc works appeal to me very much ...

George

Two days ago I received the CD Beethoven's First and Eighth Symphonies, and added just for fun the Grosse Fuga in B Flat!

Issued this year for the first time on Testamant SBT 1405, this CD brings to the attention of anyone who cares to listen the fact that Klemperer regarded studio recordings as part of the rehearsal process in preparation for the concert that would often follow, rather than taking the performance to the studio afterwards! There is an aspect to the readings that is nothing short of elemental in their directness. No detail either ignored or allowed to stand in the way of the forward momentum! And what momentum!

These Testament releases are shoiwing a side of Klemperer's music making that all too often eluded the antisceptic studio microphone. The sheer drive of the conception, often in rather quick, though never ruinously so, tempi that Toscanin would have approved of, and [such an approach] is now once again being attempted in HIP. Let me hasten to add that HIP, as a philosophy, has nothing to do with Klemperer's approach.

This maybe seen as the antidote to the high romanticism and occasionally extremely slow tempi of Furtwangler [rightly or wrongly, and who knows], or the softer edged sweetness and light of Bruno Walter.

What we get is a characterisation that unerringly finds the beauty in the music, but never seemingly searches it out, and contrasts it with the sheer power and revolutionary nature of the music, elsewhere. Here Beethoven's works seem to sound as fresh as you could possibly imagine - fresh, revolutionary, and terrifyingly powerful ...

Respectable, if not sweet sounding, BBC [broadcast monitor] mono recordings, which reflect the [then] very dry acoustic of the RFH and yield incredible clarity of musical balance, and for once a very natural timpani sound, sometimes even sounding like the cracks of cannon going of in their intensity. Listening to the Philharmonia simply play in these unedited recordings, I begin to wonder if there was a significantly finer orchestra in the world at that time, such is their fearless address to the music, certainty of resolve, and almost uncanny accuracy. A rare blend. From this it would be hard to believe the physical difficulty with which Klemperer grappled with the actual business of conducting. The result seems to show something akin to Mesmerism in the response of the orchestra.

Alpha plus in my view.

George

Klemperer was a magnificent artist. His star is in eclipse right now. Thank you for your enlightening and most interesting comments (however thankless the task may seem, it is appreciated). I should like to hear the concerts in question, though I must admit, I have never had a problem with Klemperer's studio records.


His interpretation of Stravinsky's 'Symphony in Three Movements' was a revelation to me. The composer's own statement is a mere wispy shadow next to Klemperer's logic and might !


Noye's

Dear Noye,

My first musical hero after Beethoven, Schubert and Elgar [as a ten year old] was Otto Klemperer. I will post a funny story about this here before too long!

I am not at all slating the studio recordings, but with even the compromise that is there in the actual quality of some of the old live Radio tapes, these live recordings are tremendous even compared to the best of the studio work. My plan is to examine almost every recording of Beethovem [live and studio] in the course of this Thread, and help people by pointing out the most compelling performances or performances in each work that Klemperer left in recorded. I am perhaps half way through. I see this Thread being my single biggest musical essay, and if it removes some of the incorrect preconceptions about Klemperer, and gains a few Beethoven enthusiasts along the way then it is worth it.

It never has been my intention to compare Klemperer's work to any of the other giants of his or even our time. That is for others to do for themselves, by perhaps buying one or two of the discs, perhaps on the strength of my enthusiasm, and then find the value of Klemperer's work for themselves!

The chief problem is that I could easily spend several hundred pounds tomorrow on the necessary new issues to complete the picture. And next there is Klemperer's Mozart to consider, then actually a huge and important legacy in almost every composer of significance. Klemperer, though dogged by his reputation as a Beethoven Specialist, was actually a specialist in music, rather than simply Beethoven, as his recorded Mozart shows us!

Thanks for your post, George

I have just ordered the Testament live tapings of Beethoven's Second and Seventh Symphonies with Klemperer and the Philharmonia, as well as the [deleted] EMI studio recordings of Schumann Four and Tchaikowsky Six from the same performers all on CDs from Amazon.

Should be here by the next weekend!

George

The two discs came today! Brilliant, but which piece did I put in first? Beethoven Seven, or Two, or even Tchaik's Pathetic, or Schumann Four?

Beethoven Two of course!

It's a blistering rendition. Well I have to fly, as social pleasantries must come before music, but I can tell that if only the Second Symphony is superb I shall be happy, so fine is it!!!!

I have the EMI studio set from the same time, recorded a few days before the concert, and this shows that the studio effort is like a perfect play through! This is the real bid!

So pleased!

George

PS: No doubt more will follow!

I am getting near to a sort of recommended list by now - at least for the symphonies - in Klemperer's various recordings. As usual it is not entirely clear cut!

Following Polish - not Russian - Wodka, I can definateley say that the restraint of Klemperer's Pathetique recording has nothing to do with a lack of imagination!!

George!

PS: Hint: It is not restrained! Sagacious, perhaps, but not restrained - not in the least.

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
Also re-released is Klemperer's mid-sixties EMI reording of the Missa Solemnis, which was a problematic work for him, and yet in a fair proportion of the handful of performances he gave in his long career he obtained a phenomenal synthesis of the music, which he himself considered, "does not take account of reality in performance!" He was always deeply depressed about the way it went if it was not up to his own expectations. It seems he was satisfied with the studio recording. [There is a live recording done in 1960 Vienna with the Philharmonia, which is legendary but has only briefly made it to pubication, which is apparently spell-binding. Testamant? One day perhaps].

Kindest regards from Fredrik

I've read through this thread with great interest as Klemperer is one of my favourite conductors (along with Bruno Walter, Rudolf Kempe, Mravinsky, Karel Ancerl +++). I see there is a studio recording of the Missa Solemnis issued on Vox with the Vienna Symphony Orchestra (1951). Has anybody here heard that one? Well, I ordered it.

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Missa-solemnis-Symphony...id=1213623775&sr=1-2



I also see there are some live recordings on Music & Arts with the Concertgebouw - at least of the 6th and 8th symphony? Has anybody here heard these ones?

Dear Rubio,

I have the Vox recording of the Missa on CD, and it is a performance every bit as grand as the later EMI performance, but the recording requires a certain amount of patience. The forces called for are indeed a challenge for very early tape recording, but Klemperer's vision shines through. I have not come across the Music and Arts issues, and so I can only comment on the Vox recording [from that early fifties date], which is easily my favourite performance of the Pastoral, though the accompanying Fifth Symphony is completely eclipsed in my view by Klemperer's Mono EMI recording with the Philharmonia from 1955. This is once again not simply my favourite performance of the Fifth, but by a big distance. It is terse, clear and happens to come in such a fine recording you forget it is mono. This is available on EMI CD even now.

I think the Pastoral is also helped by the wonderful playing of the Vienna Symphony Orchestra [as in the Missa as well] where the particular Viennese timbres especially of the winds [including their ancient horns!] both blend and come through the string lines in a unique way. Of course Klemperer completely brings the winds lines out in the balance as he does with the Philharmonia, but in this case, I think the actual Viennese sounds are rather important in keeping the charm element in place. You might think Klemperer would fail in the respect of charm, but he balances its importance as well as anyone ever did for records!

ATB from George

George,
When you were down last did we play my EMI 1968 vinyl copy of the Emperor Concerto no5 in E flat,Op.73.
Daniel Barenboim/Otto Klemperer New Philharmonia Orchestra.
ASD 2500 ?
Munch

No, but we joked that I could remember the catalogue number though I ordered the LP way back in 1973!

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
No, but we joked that I could remember the catalogue number though I ordered the LP way back in 1973!

ATB from George

Ah it was that album.
Can you remember what vinyl we did play because i am going through a load trying to find a peace.
I have played 6 albums and cant find it.
I bet its on one of your CDs
I WISH I KNEW WHAT IT WAS CALLED.
I will keep at it and if i dont find it i will ring you.
Munch

Dear Munch,

I can't remember playing much vinyl, though I do remember playing the Dvorak Cello Concerto with Rostrpowich and Sir Adrian Boult on HMV.

I think the Emperer Concerto number may actually be ASD 2750! It's the only LP cat. no. I more or less remember!

I am scratching my head to remember what classical pieces we did play, but we definately played the Accordionists' disc, Bach's Concerto in A for Oboe d'Amoure, Haydn's Clock Symphony, and Marcello's Oboe Concerto in C Minor - Reichenburg/Pinnock, Concertgebeouw Orchestra/Davis, and Evelyn Rothwell/Halle Orchestra, respectively. Otherwise I only put short pieces on, as I remember it!

I will send you an email with the artists and repertoire [and record issuing company], as they are all worth getting!

ATB from George

Thats it the Oboe concerto in c minor.
That has saved me a few hours.
Thanks George.
Munch

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
Dear Rubio,

I have the Vox recording of the Missa on CD, and it is a performance every bit as grand as the later EMI performance, but the recording requires a certain amount of patience. The forces called for are indeed a challenge for very early tape recording, but Klemperer's vision shines through. I have not come across the Music and Arts issues, and so I can only comment on the Vox recording [from that early fifties date], which is easily my favourite performance of the Pastoral, though the accompanying Fifth Symphony is completely eclipsed in my view by Klemperer's Mono EMI recording with the Philharmonia from 1955. This is once again not simply my favourite performance of the Fifth, but by a big distance. It is terse, clear and happens to come in such a fine recording you forget it is mono. This is available on EMI CD even now.

I think the Pastoral is also helped by the wonderful playing of the Vienna Symphony Orchestra [as in the Missa as well] where the particular Viennese timbres especially of the winds [including their ancient horns!] both blend and come through the string lines in a unique way. Of course Klemperer completely brings the winds lines out in the balance as he does with the Philharmonia, but in this case, I think the actual Viennese sounds are rather important in keeping the charm element in place. You might think Klemperer would fail in the respect of charm, but he balances its importance as well as anyone ever did for records!

ATB from George

Thank you very much for your detailed response, George. I will buy that EMI mono 5th. I see Klemperer has at least three live 5th's on Testament; with the Philharmonia, BPO and WP. It would certainly be interesting to hear some of these.

I can really imagine the Viennese instruments suit the Pastoral perfectly. I wonder if Klemperer performed this work with the WP at some moment (like he did with the 5th)?

br
Espen

Dear Espen,

I have the live BPO recording [of the Fifth Symphony], which I bought a couple of months ago and described on the previous page of this thread, if you are interested. Listening again and discussing it with pe zulu I have come to a further conclusion about it. It is fascinating, powerful and even though it is somewhat slower than the old EMI Mono recording it carried the same monumental vision of the work. But there is a slight reservation that remains in my mind over it: The BPO string sound, which is definitely oversized for the music's good. The orchestra plays beautifully, please do not misunderstand, and the winds are well balanced. Apparently Klemperer had the greatest difficulty getting his way and persuading the orchestra the bring forward the dynamic of the winds relative to the strings as by the mid-sixties the band was well drilled in Karajan's lush string sound and swamped wind balance, which DG's engineers only partly counteract in the sixties Karajan Beethoven cycle. The problem for me is that the basses completely also drown the celli. This is not balanced at all, and the celli might as well not be there, so inherently I am growing to dislike this performance on account of the orchestral style, but wonder at how much the orchestra does sound like the Philharmonia with its focussed, well balanced string section, and wonderfully forward winds, for most of the time [bass-cello balance aside] but how they revert to the Karajan loud sound for the Forte Tutti passages. I notice that Testamant have also issued performances of the Pastoral and the Seventh with Klemperer and the BPO. On the showing in the Fifth [and Fourth which is the coupling] I shall avoid these. They would be fascinating, but not my idea of great lucid, propulsive Beethoven playing.

And strangely I have the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra performance of the Fifth now issued in the big Testamant CD boxed set of live recordings from the Vienna Festival Concerts Klemperer conducted. The issue I have is on the Orchestra's One Hundred and Fiftieth Anniversary Jubilee Album Series [published by the Orchestra itself on the DG label in 1992], and this is a granit-like, amazing performance, but definitely unusual! It is incredibly slow, as some of his performances could be in the last few years of his life, but there is no doubting the great playing and the great conducting going on. The audience erupt at the end, and rightly so in my opinion, but it will not suit everyone as music making I am sure. One to approach with caution, it is much more captivating musically than the Berlin recording, but startlingly slow! The balance internally in the string band, and with the winds is so clear and fine. Obviously Klemperer was getting exactly what he wanted, and his slow tempi are maintained without deviation, so huge momentum and emotional strength results ... I love it, but do not prefer it to his best efforts with the Philharmonia. I would never part with it. Perhaps I could give you the BPO recording [of Four and Five, as I count them a curio, and one that should be heard at least once]. In that way you could have them, listen to them and work out if you would want the others from Berlin as a proper purchase. No problem sending it, if you would like. Email in profile. [I am not aware that Klemperer ever performed the Pastoral with the VPO, which is a shame in my view, but the Vox set with the Vienna Symphony Orchestra is just so lovely, and the recording is tolerably good, and well balanced, so that is recommendable, as is the EMI studio recording from 1957, which may be better played and recorded but just is eclipsed by the older recording for me in a way that is indefinable!].

I have every intention of getting the live Philharmonia recording of the Fifth as it seems from the other live ones I have from them, there is every chance that they may become my favourites! So far I have One, Two, Seven, Eight, and the Choral twice [1957and 1961], and will fill in the others except the Eroica, which Testament have a recording issued of the Danish Royal Chapel Orchestra [or State Radio Orchestra, not sure], which pe zulu can remember being given. I am sure this will be worth getting, though the 1955 Mono studio EMI set will take some equalling in my view.

Those three 1955 recordings Eroica, Five [both in Mono], and the Seventh [amazingly capture in experimental Stereo at the same sessions] are among the most compelling Beethoven on recordings I know, and yet I find the live [1957] Seventh even finer, and I never expected that!

I am getting close to a conclusion on this, but cannot yet quite do it!

Off topic, my Aunt is in Oslo with my cousins at the moment! I wish I were!!!

All the best from George Fredrik

Hi George,

Sorry, I just saw this thread of yours so mine is a little redundant.

I started to get really interested in this subject last month because in San Francisco we were lucky enough to have the Philharmonia visit with Dohnanyi playing the 5th, (and Brahms 4th their first night) and I was struck how similar these were to Carlos Kleiber with Vienna but also the differences from Klemperer yet your word - satisfying - sums all of them up for me. I will likely have a soft spot for Dohnanyi and the Philharmonia for a while for making this connection.

Do you rate any of the more recent LVB1-9 recordings in the satisfying category - with or without mono button?

Jeremy

Dear George

I definitely agree with your words about the Klemperer 4 & 5 with the BPO, concerning the opulent and bass heavy string sound, so typical of the orchester in question. As if Karajans spirit was unavoidale. As if conducting the BPO first and foremost was a question of being able to transform the Karajan interpretation. I do not know why this is so. Maybe the reharsal time was too short. Contrary to this several other conductors have made recordings with the BPO in the same period even on DG, which do not make me think of Karajan.

From the Testament catalogue I have acquired the above mentioned 4&5 with BPO and the 1&8 with the Philharmonia. I even have to agree with your words (elsewhere) about the latter. Two lively and well integrated performances, not perfect in the strictest sense of the word, but much more exciting than the corresponding studio production.

And I am now considering the acquisition of the live 2&7 and the 4&5 as well as the 9 all with the Philharmonia of course. I understand, that the live 9 with the similar cast of singers as the studio production (1957) is preferable to the other one with a different cast. Or should one have both? As to 7 I think, it would be a hard job to match the studio mono with the Philharmonia.

Concerning the live Eroica the orchester is the Orchestra of the Royal Danish Opera, which is identical with the Danish Royal Chapel Orchestra. This was at that time regarded to be the top rank orchester in Denmark. Next came the Danish State Radio Orchestra, which was trained by Nicolai Malko, and which played regularily with a host of prominent names. I think the performance will serve as an interesting supplementary listening, more satisfying than the BPO CDs, but it is (as far as I remember - just but a child) no match for the Philharmonia studio mono, which I knew at the time, I heard the live performance, which I think was in 1958, and definitely not earlier than autumn 1957.

The testament live Pastorale consist IIRC of a double CD set with reharsals included. I read about it some time ago, but now I can not find it on Testament´s home page. Where did it go?

ATB Poul