...what's more important, if one had to narrow it to one particular criteria:

Excellent recording with an average performance

or

Excellent performance with an average recording
???

Of course it's to be debated whether a classical newbie could even ascertain an average or below average performance.

Mind you, I'm looking for the more important characteristic that will keep me coming back.

Aric

Definitely the better performance over the sonic attributes. I have countless LPs I bought in college browsing the record store bins. At that time, browsing for music was a much more interesting past time, with the tactile pleasure of picking out an LP and flipping it over to read the notes on the back. You could spin it between your thumb and first two fingers just so.....

Anyway, being an impoverished student, I more often than not bought something I wanted based on the price of the LP rather than the performer. At that time, budget labels like Vox or Nonesuch could be bought $1.99 vs RCA Red Label or DGG for $7.99: I could come out of the record store with many more titles under my arm that way. Of course, I sprang for the really big names on occasion, am now I am glad that I did as I have perhaps a half dozen LPs widely accepted today as collector's items. Anyway, rather than both the good and the bad today costing pretty much the same today on CD, second line LP labels were quite a lot less to buy then. The bottom line is that I now have quite a few performances of important pieces that I really don't care to listen to again, and in fact, I have supplemented most of them with better performances over the years. One is never quite drawn as thoroughly into a mediocre performance of an important work as one is by (a) true master(s). I can always get around the sound not being great. Of course, when the performance and sound are both exemplary, well then......

Norman

quote:

Excellent recording with an average performance

or

Excellent performance with an average recording

Excellent performance every time.

The best recording in the World will not make up for poor musicianship.

An excellent performance is the way to go every time.

It's got to be a great performance. If it's good enough musically, sonic factors are less important and you'll enjoy it. It doesn't matter how good the recording was if the musicians aren't playing well.

I don't think you have to be a hardened classical fan to appreciate a great performance, I'm sure there are plenty where anyone could tell the difference.

I find the penguin guide pretty invaluable when it comes to picking recordings (and any half-decent record shop will have a copy you can glance at). It's only let me down once, but that's a whole other thread...

It you want some recommendations for particular works, feel free to ask.

regards,

Tam

I would like to hear your recommandations
for recordings of the Brandenburgconcertos,
and some explanatory comments would be most welcome.

I don't know the works all that well, but I have Pinnock and the English Concert on DG's Blue label on two separate discs and I'm very happy with them and the various extras. The set is played on period instruments. It also happens to be the penguin guide's key recording. My only complaint (and it's a pretty minor one) is that I find the blue-tinted cd cases really annoying!

I can't really comment on them as compared to others, since, as I say, I don't really know them all that well and I only have the one set.

regards,

Tam

I'll second Pinnock and the English Concert as the best version of the several I own.

Norman

quote:

Originally posted by pe-zulu:
I would like to hear your recommandations
for recordings of the Brandenburgconcertos

If you can find it (on LP only, no CD release that I know of), I highly recommend the luminous performance, on period instruments, by Collegium Aureum, on the RCA label.

If the advent of CD has done nothing else, it has at least restored to the catalogue some wonderful recordings from the 1950s and 1960s. These were recordings made by artists who were recording pieces that they knew and loved. They were made in the days before the notion of "complete cycles" set in.

So don't go, as a general rule, for the 1970s/1980s recordings when completeness and multi-miking came in. Go for some of the lovely old stuff, now being rerereleased on mid or bargain price.

Graham

I'd third the Pinnock

Graham,

But I've got plenty of complete cycles dating from the 50s and 60s (and can think of plenty more - not least kempff's beethoven sonata and concerto cycles, Bernstein's first Mahler Cycle, Solti's Ring and so on). That said, I own more recordings that I would consider 'classics' from that period than pretty well anywhere else. And the sound quality from those times is frequently impressive (my Kempff sonata cycle from the early to mid 50s, while mono, is frequently stunningly good). Don't write off cycles from the 70s and 80s though, there are plenty of good examples (Kempff's Schubert sonatas and Perahia's Mozart concertos stand out for me).


regards,

Tam

Anyone here familiar with both the Pinnock/English Concert and Collegium Aureum recordings of the period instrument Brandenburg Concerti?

If so, which do you prefer, and why?

Pinnock = Trevor Pinnock yes?
Conducting or playing?

Have seen Brandenburgs 1,2 & 3 ARCHIV 410501-2
worth getting?
Please give details of preffered recordings.
Thanks
Howard

Yes, I own the Collegium Aureum (C.A.)recording (LP, German Harmonia Mundi 1965-66, led from the soloviolin by FranzJosef Maier), as well as the Pinnock recording (LP, Archiv 1982, English Concert (E.C.) led from the harpsichord by Trevor Pinnock - rereleased on CD too). (The C.A. was by the way rereleased on CD too by BMG together with the Suites but only available during a short period in the 1990-ties.I didn´t get it.)

The C.A. recording was just the third ever recording on period instruments. The first was the Schola Cantorum Basiliensis recording under August Wenzinger, Archive 1950-53 - not all winds were strictly period instruments. The second was the first Concentus Musicus/Harnoncourt recording Telefunken 1964 -rereleased on CD. From that point of wiev the C.A. recording is exceptional and it even features some notable period specialists, e.g. Hans-Martin Linde and Gustav Leonhardt both of whom later made their "own" recording of the Brandenburgs. But as a whole the playing of the C.A. is of course much less polished than the playing of the E.C. This is especially true of the corni and oboes, but as well to some extent of the general string playing too. But on the other hand this makes it more colourful, raw and "natural" as opposed to the E.C.s full opulent sound, and the recording accentuates this difference. As to the interpretations the differences are relatively small. Both are "authentic" in style , genuine and integrated, and without extravagances or idiosyncrasies.If you want perfection though, the Pinnock is the most perfect (and best recorded), but from a musical point of wiev they equal each other. On the other hand there are other "period" recordings worth considering, not least the abovementioned recordings by Gustav Leonhardt (LP Seon 1977 - rereleased on CD by Sony) and Hans Martin Linde (LP EMI Reflexe 1982 - rereleased by on CD by Virgin Classics).

This message has been edited. Last edited by: pe-zulu,

It would be nice to have some recommendations to help spark my very base catalogue.

Maybe 10 recordings that are easy to find as a beginning.

I have a TT, but the only way for me to buy vinyl where I live is from online vendors, i.e. Acoustic Sounds, Elusive Disc, A Music Direct etc. These seem to be more of the audiophile recording crowd. Because I just got started in vinyl I'm fairly ignorant of it and would prefer to stick with buying new. Buying used just scares me.

For the 10 recordings it would probably be easier for cd, but it's not entirely mandatory either.

To give you an idea of what I like, I have bought:

Dvorak's New World by Reiner...XRCD
Prokofieff's Lieutenant Kije and Stravinsky's Song of the Nightingale by Reiner...LP
Beethoven's 9 by Karajan and also by Solti...CD
Orff's Carmina Burana by Jochum...CD

I have a few other cds but they contain mostly samples of different composers.

Anyway, if someone could put together a list of 10 important/influential recordings to cover some basics, that would be most appreciated.

A recent turn of events has limited funds to a great degree, so these 10 will have to make do for a while.

Thanks.

If funds are limited (and even if they're not) an excellent place to start is Mackerras's cycle of Beethoven symphonies (on EMI's classics for pleasure label with the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic). I think it's comfortably the best of the cycles I've heard and goes for £15 for 5 discs.

The deca double cd containing Scubert's 5th, 8th and 9th symphonies with Solti conducting the VPO is also an excellent buy.

You might also want to check out Brahms. Symphony 2 with the LSO and Haitink on the LSO Live label is a bargin and very good (but the rest of the cycle is not). Alsop is just starting one on Naxos (which is also cheap) and the first release got a good write up in the Gramophone recently. Abbado's cycle with the BPO is highly regarded but pricey. Karajan, also with the BPO, is available on a DG double and is the key recording for the penguin guide (make sure it's the earlier analogue set - you can tell because the box with have ADD as opposed to DDD - because the later digital one is less good). Mackerras on Telarc with the SCO is also superb (and interesting for its use of a smaller than normal orchetra - more like the one Brahms himself would have used).

I'd also solidly recommend picking up Mozart symphonies 40 and 41. Mackerras with the Prague chamber orchestra is good but Bernstein with the VPO is absolutely outstanding.

If you like the piano, then I recommend anything where Kempff is the pianist.



That should be enough to get you started


regards,

Tam

Thanks Tam!

I think I'll go with a number of these. Trying to decide which Brahms, Karajan or Macherras? The Macherras is $20 more, so I'm inclined to go with the Karajan.

Aric

The greatest delight for a clasical music fan is having a tuner, or even a radio to listen to a classical station. You hear so many different composers and pieces. (as well as the usual favorites)

Aric,

No problem. The Mackerras is my personal favourite, but I should stick on the caveat that I haven't heard the Karajan (I include it because it's the penguin guide's first choice and they're normally reliable). The only budget cycle I've heard if the LSO/Haitink I mentioned (but there only 2 is worth it). I've also got Bernstein with the VPO, but there only no.4 is outstanding). karajan is probably a safe bet if money is tight.


regards,

Tam